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knock above 5deg timing....frustrating...LOG.

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HaveBlue83

15+ Year Contributor
546
86
Feb 10, 2009
Landenburg, Pennsylvania
(I just added a fuel lab 515 AFPR, new fuel filter and did the charcoal canister/vac tree/EGR delete. fuel delivery is MUCH better. my old OEM FPR was shot from the Wally 255. that issue is fixed)

Backstory:

I had my BS belt improperly tensioned by my "buddy"during the 16g install/maint overhaul weekend. After about 15 pulls the next weekend the timing jumped bad from the shredded BS belt. It went at 5K RPM's; enough to gouge the Intake HKS cam and of course the valves kissed the pistons. I removed the valve marks on the pistons with a dremel, smoothed them up so i wouldn't have hot spots the best I could.

I was at about 11deg of timing before the belt went and the car pulled very hard. now it doesn't....

After the rebuild (used head, 262 intake cam) my timing has to be severely pulled in order NOT to knock.....I now start at about 0deg timing at 3K when I go WOT, slowly build up to 5-6deg total by 6300 when it starts to knock. If i add a degree in any rpm it will for sure knock exactly in that RPM range. I cannot see what the issue is anywhere.

I can't really do anything else. i know i need to do a boost leak test. I have to make the BLT. I never did one before and the car scared me it was so fast on 11deg timing before the timing jumped. I had no issues boost leaks before. I'm guessing the pistons are damaged ough to cause knock. I cannot see anything else that would make it do this but something internally damaged. Knock sensor is DRY, looks great.

ANYONE else have any input? here's two of my logs. On the first one (I mis-spelled the name, sorry) I added two deg at 4500RPMS, so i have some knock there as well. usually its zero knock till about 5k-ish. I did this to show that i am on the threshold with the timing where it is now of "about to knock". the second log is of it lowered to where it doesn't knock till higher RPM's.

Kinda wish I could turn the KS OFF and see what will happen in the log.

PLEASE, just download the logs if you can and check it out. I have posted about this on ECMlink as well.
 

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  • srill kmnick.elg
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  • WOT Pull no knock 6300.elg
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i started the pump, 43.5 psi, turned the pump off and cranked, still nothing. there is fuel in that rail.

if i ADD any more timing i get knock. i had to take them that far down to stop the knock.
 
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Base pressure should be set to 38psi as per your fuel settings. But that is not enough to give you an no start. Was the engine still warm when you tried to start it back. Have you checked for spark? You have a 2g which have been famous for the transistor plug coming off check this to make sure this isn't your issue. It it the rectangular connector between your fuel rail and intake manifold.
 
EDIT: got it...the dang TPS clip is missing the U clip and it came HALFWAY out....must have been pulled when i moved wires. (For the record, I have to treat this car like i'm a dominatrix and tell it its a POS for it to respond. ughhhhh.)


OK, now back to the other issue of the low timing needed to avoid knocking.
 
Check your base timing, it could be more than 5° advanced.
 
i did set it up at 5deg with a light when i did the 1g CAS and wiring, but I am going to check that again. it was very hard as the cover was worn from the belts right on the Degree markings, and its very tight in there. I can definitely go back and reverify, I can try tonight.
 
well, i think i got it.

I redid my base timing. my marks are rubbed away from the belt. the 5deg mark is at an ANGLE. i lined it up with the end of the mark.. so i was advanced. I retarded it back to where 5deg mark would extend out to if it was there.

took a drive...no knock till after it was boost spiking to 25psi @ 6k.

Added 2 deg timing from 4-6k...still no knock. it started @ 2 deg and saw almost 8deg by 6k and my sliders are still wayyyy retarded back.

edit: yup, im back the where i was last sept! almost 10deg timing up top, no knock till 6k.
 
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good i was looking at your logs and was confused why not lean out ## a/f a bit 10.1 is kinda rich i run mine around 11.1 when it spools up tapering to around 10.5 by redline on 93 pump i am running around 15deg of timming top end with no knock.

edit: total timing on the sliders advanced between 4-5 counts under boost then down to around 3 by redline.
 
well on my AEM I see 11.4 average A/Fr. my link is way off. if it shows 10.1 its really 10.8 minimum.

im up around 11-12deg timing now. after i fixed a crapton of boost leaks my 16g now starts @ 15psi at 3k, goes to 20psi by 5k, then by 6k its at 25psi and i cant go much further without knock LOL. this is off WASTEGATE pressure! hahaha. airflow is about 37lbs at 6k so its much better...with leaks i was 40lbs by 5k. my gas mileage is better too. BLT truely does need to be a first priority!!!

the car started getting beasty. im buying a Precision 39mm EWG/PR o2 housing soon and will be porting my turbo hotside. then i can really get tuned and make good smooth power.

definitely a much happier car though.
 
Great news! and ok that makes more sense i was like wait a min thats kinda rich but sounds like a good tune now pulling decent timing all that advanced timing really helps the pull when the charger spools up huh:p
 
yup! it's back to the boost spiking e316g we all know and hate :p

do u know what menu i can adjust the WB output on link? inhave the A/Fr est and the actual signal from the AEM now ported to the log, but its at like 9.8 when im at 11's on the aem. i only know the Ford SCT formula to adjust, not link.
 
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