2G Key reminder not working

[EclipseGS1996]

The 1g/2g DSM's in the USA did not come with any immobilizer so I don't know what it is. So you're saying the immobilizer came from the factory in your car?

I'm just trying to understand how it works. In post 34 you mention another key without the chip. So will that key work in the ignition if the immobilizer chip key is present somewhere in the car? Or do you have to always have the immobilizer chip key in the ignition to start the car?

But I have an immobilizer card with a code and model of immobilizer from mitsubishi.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok I want to get back to the key reminder switch. You said it's the push button shown in post 29. You removed it from the ignition switch assembly correct?

Yours has 2 black wires where my diagrams show 1 black and 1 green-yellow. Perhaps that's a difference between USA and Euro models. From the picture it looks like yours goes to B-39 pins 4 and 6 which matches mine. Can you unplug 1 wire from it and then see if the key reminder function works (leave key in ignition in off position and open left door)?

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Ok I want to get back to the key reminder switch. You said it's the push button shown in post 29. You removed it from the ignition switch assembly correct?
Yours has 2 black wires where my diagrams show 1 black and 1 green-yellow. Perhaps that's a difference between USA and Euro models. From the picture it looks like yours goes to B-39 pins 4 and 6 which matches mine. Can you unplug 1 wire from it and then see if the key reminder function works (leave key in ignition in off position and open left door)?

Yeah I removed it

How can I remove 1 wire from the key reminder switch? The only way is to cut it or what do you mean with unplug 1 wire?

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok interestingly I just found the wiring diagrams for a 1996 Euro Eclipse. It just occurred to me that the black and green-yellow wires are on the harness side of the B-39 connector. So on the push button side they could easily be both black. Here is the page.

 

[luv2rallye]

How can I remove 1 wire from the key reminder switch? The only way is to cut it or what do you mean with unplug 1 wire?

I'm wondering if the button switch is bad where it always has continuity whether the button is pressed or not. So I'd like to test it. If you can't unplug 1 wire, try unplugging the B-39 connector and test continuity of the switch that way (test continuity of the switch side connector pin 4 to pin 6 [which are those 2 black wires] and pressing the button. You should only have continuity when the button is not pressed, and no continuity when it is pressed.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

I'm wondering if the button switch is bad where it always has continuity whether the button is pressed or not. So I'd like to test it. If you can't unplug 1 wire, try unplugging the B-39 connector and test continuity of the switch that way (test continuity of the switch side connector pin 4 to pin 6 [which are those 2 black wires] and pressing the button. You should only have continuity when the button is not pressed, and no continuity when it is pressed.

Yeah I tested this with key in and out and there is continuity when the key is not in.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok next I'd like to verify that the B-39 harness side green-yellow (pin 6) is not shorted to ground somewhere. So unplug B-39 connector. Now on the HARNESS side connector, check continuity of the green-yellow (pin 6) to ground. Because it goes to a diode inside of the ETACS-ECU, check this continuity both polarities (test leads one way, then reversed) in case that diode is blown, shorted, or gets forward biased while testing.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Ok next I'd like to verify that the B-39 harness side green-yellow (pin 6) is not shorted to ground somewhere. So unplug B-39 connector. Now on the HARNESS side connector, check continuity of the green-yellow (pin 6) to ground. Because it goes to a diode inside of the ETACS-ECU, check this continuity both polarities (test leads one way, then reversed) in case that diode is blown, shorted, or gets forward biased while testing.

Okay I’m gonna test it

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Ok next I'd like to verify that the B-39 harness side green-yellow (pin 6) is not shorted to ground somewhere. So unplug B-39 connector. Now on the HARNESS side connector, check continuity of the green-yellow (pin 6) to ground. Because it goes to a diode inside of the ETACS-ECU, check this continuity both polarities (test leads one way, then reversed) in case that diode is blown, shorted, or gets forward biased while testing.

So after testing I don’t get continuity on pin 6 green yellow wire.

 

[luv2rallye]

Well I'm running out of ideas. Could it be that models with this immobilizer chip key don't support the ignition key reminder warning buzzer for some reason?

Does this chip key physically different in the sense that it does not touch the key reminder switch or does it still physically operate that switch like the non-chip keys?
Remember I've never seen one.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Well I'm running out of ideas. Could it be that models with this immobilizer chip key don't support the ignition key reminder warning buzzer?

Does this chip key physically different in the sense that it does not touch the key reminder switch or does it still physically operate that switch like the non-chip keys?
Remember I've never seen one.

It’s the same system same key. If you put the key in the ignition it pushes the button physically but yeah I think it’s gonna be without key reminder. On the other side I’m questionning why this key sensor is there if it don’t operate something

 

[luv2rallye]

It’s the same system same key. If you put the key in the ignition it pushes the button physically but yeah I think it’s gonna be without key reminder. On the other side I’m questionning why this key sensor is there if it don’t operate something

Ok yes. One interesting thing is if you look at the attached immobilizer wiring diagrams you'll see that the Immobilizer ECU (to detect the chip key present) only has power when the ignition key is turned on. And it appears that perhaps it will detect the chip key if it is just close to the ignition switch. If that is true, then you could also have a non-chip key in the ignition and hold the chip key next to it and it should start (if it allows you to turn the non-chip key). Perhaps you could try this.

As to why some things are present even if they are not used, it's because car manufacturers can't put dozens of different separate things in some cars on the asssembly line and not others. It's unmanageable to handle 1000's of cars on an assembly line where each would have all different items or options. So unless it's a big item like an engine or tranny, they often just put these cheaper items in every model or car. Sometimes the items may even be there but will be disabled in some way if the customer hasn't paid extra for them (and the customer doesn't even know). In fact the wiring harnesses will often be identical in many models because of this. And for a single model like the Eclipse, the wiring harness will be the same no matter what's in the car. It's just designed cleverly so all the factory has to do is plug in whatever things that model or option supports and the wiring harness will handle it. That's why you see a lot of unused connectors there.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Ok yes. One interesting thing is if you look at the attached immobilizer wiring diagrams you'll see that the Immobilizer ECU (to detect the chip key present) only has power when the ignition key is turned on. And it appears that perhaps it will detect the chip key if it is just close to the ignition switch. If that is true, then you could also have a non-chip key in the ignition and hold the chip key next to it and it should start (if it allows you to turn the non-chip key). Perhaps you could try this.

As to why things are present even if they are not used, it's because car manufacturers can't put dozens or hundreds of things in this model but not that model. It's unmanageable. So unless it's a big item like an engine or tranny, they just put these smaller items in every model. Many times the items will be there but they are disabled some way in the cheaper models. In fact the wiring harnesses will often be identical in many models because of this. And for a single model like the Eclipse, the wiring harness will be the same no matter what's in the car. It's just designed cleverly so all the factory has to do is plug in whatever things that model supports and the wiring harness will handle it. That's why you see a lot of unused connectors there.

Yeah if I use another key with the original key near the ignition I can start the engine because it detects the chip.

So it could be that my car never had the key reminder buzzer. I also saw just US models with this beep but I were thinking that everyone just removed it on euro models.

 

[luv2rallye]

Yeah if I use another key with the original key near the ignition I can start the engine because it detects the chip.

So it could be that my car never had the key reminder buzzer. I also saw just US models with this beep but I were thinking that everyone just removed it on euro models.

Yes, I can see Euro models with the immobilizer perhaps don't support the key reminder buzzer. In the diagrams (post 62 attachments) the immobilizer Ecu doesn't get power (to even see if the chip key is present) until any key is in the ignition and turned to ON or Start. So the immobilizer can't tell the difference between any key left in the ignition turned off OR a chip key that isn't even present within range. They probably didn't want to have the immobilizer using battery power when the key is in the off position so designed it this way. Since any key could be left in the ignition in the off position without the key reminder buzzer going off when the driver's door is opened, it no longer has any useful meaning (so they most likely then disabled it). Note: I suspect having the chip key anywhere within 3 feet of the ignition (like in your pocket) will allow the non-chip key to start the car.

8/3/2022 edit: See post 68.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Yes, I can see Euro models with the immobilizer can't support the key reminder buzzer. I can see this from the diagrams (post 62 attachments) because the immobilizer Ecu doesn't get power (to even see if the chip key is present) until any key is in the ignition and turned to ON or Start. So the immobilizer can't tell the difference between any key left in the ignition turned off OR a chip key that isn't even present within range. They probably didn't want to have the immobilizer using power when the key is in the off position so designed it this way (and I agree with that decision). So since a key could be left in the ignition in the off position OR it might not even be present, the key reminder buzzer no longer has meaning (so they disabled it). Note: I suspect having the chip key anywhere within 3 feet of the ignition (like in your pocket) will allow the non-chip key to start the car.

Okay now I understand then I’m not gonna touch it that’s better

 

[EclipseGS1996]

Yes, I can see Euro models with the immobilizer can't support the key reminder buzzer. I can see this from the diagrams (post 62 attachments) because the immobilizer Ecu doesn't get power (to even see if the chip key is present) until any key is in the ignition and turned to ON or Start. So the immobilizer can't tell the difference between any key left in the ignition turned off OR a chip key that isn't even present within range. They probably didn't want to have the immobilizer using power when the key is in the off position so designed it this way (and I agree with that decision). So since a key could be left in the ignition in the off position OR it might not even be present, the key reminder buzzer no longer has meaning (so they disabled it). Note: I suspect having the chip key anywhere within 3 feet of the ignition (like in your pocket) will allow the non-chip key to start the car.

Thank you for that great help even if I don’t have the key reminder buzzer I now understand more about the electrical system

 

[Dericsh]

Do we have some other active euro members that can confirm the lack of key reminder? I know I’ve read some threads from euro members but can’t remember any usernames right now unfortunately.

 

[luv2rallye]

After re-thinking this I believe my analysis in post 64 may be incorrect or at least unlikely.

Now I believe the key reminder buzzer probably works whether you have the immobilizer or not. I say this because the key reminder switch is separate (and has a separate operation) from the immobilizer and each inputs its own signal to the ETACS-ECU (which has the buzzer). The key reminder switch can still tell if any key is in the ignition regardless of its key position, so why not let it activate the key reminder buzzer when the driver’s door is opened regardless of the immobilizer?

(A) Your non-working key reminder buzzer may still be due to something we haven’t found (like a wire broken/shorted, a wire connection not making good contact, or ETACS-ECU not working properly).
(B) OR it might have something to do with that added wire with the 20A fuse. You said it goes to the back of the ignition (post 47) but I'd have to know exactly to what.
(C) OR a previous owner may have gotten so irritated with the key reminder buzzer (because he always leaves the car in his own garage with the key in it) that he disabled it somehow (like I have).
(D) Or a previous owner who starts his car 10 times every day may have gotten so irritated always having to grab the key out of his pocket to put into the ignition (and then always having to remove it when done to put back into his pocket), that he decided to just leave the non-chip key in the ignition at all times and carry around the chip key in his pocket (not ever having to take it out). So the immobilizer function works and he gets no irritating key reminder buzzer.

After all the effort you’ve spent looking for it, my own opinion is it’s not worth spending any more time – but it’s your decision. However you might want to ask someone else with an immobilizer to see if the key reminder buzzer works.

 

[EclipseGS1996]

After re-thinking this I believe my analysis in post 64 may be incorrect or at least unlikely.

Now I believe the key reminder buzzer probably works whether you have the immobilizer or not. I say this because the key reminder switch is separate (and has a separate operation) from the immobilizer and each inputs its own signal to the ETACS-ECU (which has the buzzer). The key reminder switch can still tell if any key is in the ignition regardless of its key position, so why not let it activate the key reminder buzzer when the driver’s door is opened regardless of the immobilizer?

(A) Your non-working key reminder buzzer may still be due to something we haven’t found (like a wire broken/shorted, a wire connection not making good contact, or ETACS-ECU not working properly).
(B) OR it might have something to do with that added wire with the 20A fuse. You said it goes to the back of the ignition (post 47) but I'd have to know exactly to what.
(C) OR a previous owner may have gotten so irritated with the key reminder buzzer (because he always leaves the car in his own garage with the key in it) that he disabled it somehow (like I have).
(D) Or a previous owner who starts his car 10 times every day may have gotten so irritated always having to grab the key out of his pocket to put into the ignition (and then always having to remove it when done to put back into his pocket), that he decided to just leave the non-chip key in the ignition at all times and carry around the chip key in his pocket (not ever having to take it out). So the immobilizer function works and he gets no irritating key reminder buzzer.

After all the effort you’ve spent looking for it, my own opinion is it’s not worth spending any more time – but it’s your decision. However you might want to ask someone else with an immobilizer to see if the key reminder buzzer works.

Yeah I think I’m gonna leave it like this.

Thank you for your help