The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners

  • Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Please Support STM Tuned
Please Support STM Tuned

Just installed an FP HTA RED, holy shite!

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
You're seeing 26psi at 4600rpm?! i have tried everything, done countless leak tests, checked base timing, drew jones tune, and my 95 tsi awd with a 6 bolk block/2g head is STILL only making 26psi by 5700rpm on a perfectly healthy HTA Red...
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
There are a lot of things that will effect spool. Boost leaks, camshaft lobe separation, afr and timing advance DURING spoolup are a few.

Stock 1g turbo cams as well, everything is lined up. I've preloaded the internal gate that came on it and it hasn't changed anything. I'm using the ingersoll BCS and using ecmlink boost control, i've tried playing with the settings and it makes no difference. Also running speed density. I guess i'll just keep checking shit.

My last resort is to switch to a 7cm housing and put my punishment o2 housing with a 38mm tial wg on the car and see what happens.

EDIT: i've fixed a couple small boost leaks since that datalog with no change in spool.
 

Attachments

  • log.2015.11.18-01.elg
    113.6 KB · Views: 44
Last edited:

donniekak

DSM Wiseman
5,614
950
Mar 23, 2008
Surprise, Arizona
You're seeing 26psi at 4600rpm?! i have tried everything, done countless leak tests, checked base timing, drew jones tune, and my 95 tsi awd with a 6 bolk block/2g head is STILL only making 26psi by 5700rpm on a perfectly healthy HTA Red...
What gear are you in when you get these results?
 

rrussell

Proven Member
399
54
Jan 7, 2008
coeur d' alene, Idaho
3rd..

and actually I only hit 23 psi by 5700

On my car before I went to my compound setup, my FP Red would make my target boost of 28 psi at 6000 rpm.
This is with stock cams and stock intake. I also had FP weld the internal waste gate flapper shut. They did a terrible job on the weld so bad you could throw a small animal through the gap. I then went to the compound setup 13g/FP Red and its till struggled to get the Red to come online. So I
re-welded the gate correctly and man what a difference. Now with the compound setup it makes max boost as fast as I want. Now I have it set to make 26 psi at 3900 rpm on the Blizzaks. With the QTP tires I have had it is high as 32 psi at 3900 rpm.
 

kchaazz

Proven Member
1,169
71
Oct 2, 2002
PENSACOLA, Florida
Take the line off the wastegate, plug the end of the line then punch it in third gear and see what happens but obviously let off the pedal as soon as you hit your target boost otherwise the turbo will hit over thirty psi with no wastegate signal. If it shows a huge difference in spool, then you just need to tune the solenoid a bit more. Of course the safer way to do the above test is to borrow a friends mbc or build a cheap one real quick.

Holy hell, Rrussell, I can only imagine what Red powa would be like at that rpm! Wheres peak torque on that setup?
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Take the line off the wastegate, plug the end of the line then punch it in third gear and see what happens but obviously let off the pedal as soon as you hit your target boost otherwise the turbo will hit over thirty psi with no wastegate signal. If it shows a huge difference in spool, then you just need to tune the solenoid a bit more. Of course the safer way to do the above test is to borrow a friends mbc or build a cheap one real quick.

Holy hell, Rrussell, I can only imagine what Red powa would be like at that rpm! Wheres peak torque on that setup?

I'll try that next. I had the part that screws onto the wg actuator rod bottomed out(as tight as it could be, for wg preload) and upon looking at it, I don't think there was very much preload. I took it off and cut off a couple millimeters of threads and screwed it back in. I had to pull with a good amount of force to get it on the flapper. I'm going to see if it makes a difference.. In the end, if nothing I try makes a difference, i'll probably try to trade it for an HTA Green or something similar. This is just ridiculous. As long as I can still make 400whp on 93 i'll be happy.
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Yeah, 400 whp on 93 pump piss is why I went with the Red. Hope I get there. Im still trying to get my max effort on the tune before going to the dyno.
Its definitely the turbo for the job. With the right cams and springs, and intake manifold it should be easy to make over 400whp on pump.

I think(I pray) i'm close to 400whp right now, but the powerband is so peaky its useless. I'm about to go for a drive and see if the additional wastegate preload has made a difference.

Are you on the internal gate or external?

---------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Just looked at your profile. Should be super easy for you to make 400whp. That is a good setup you got there.
 
Last edited:

oren hughbanks

Proven Member
266
26
Aug 4, 2014
prescott valley, Arizona
Nice man I've enjoyed reading this thread. I'm looking in a red as well, and I was scrolling through your profile pics, I might be mistaken but do you have the punishment front mount? What did you do for your piping now that you don't have the jpipe, if you don't mind my inquiry :confused:
 

Archer Fabrications

Proven Member
9,976
976
May 9, 2011
Scottsdale, Arizona
Wanna trade? haha

Nah my bottom end would sh** out its guts with a 6466 @30PSI
It's all in the tune. 400whp isnt hard to make on these cars. I made 398whp on a bolt on hx40 at 20 psi on english racings dynojet. Nothing special either.. And they didn't even turn up the boost.... I left their shop cranking up the boost to 30 and re tuning my way home. Never been on the dyno since then and I'm sure car never made less then that. This was on 92 pump. I just switched to e85 and highly recommend it if it's available.
 

kchaazz

Proven Member
1,169
71
Oct 2, 2002
PENSACOLA, Florida
I dont have ecmlink cause i use Tunerpro, but what does your timing advance look like from 4k to 5k? I have mine at 7, ramping to 11* by redline. Im on the internal wastegate preloaded to the max.
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
I just went for a ride after modifying the wg actuator rod. I think I preloaded it too much, cause now i'm spiking to 31psi.. need to mess with my bcs settings too... but the good news is it is now spooling like it is supposed to. 28psi at 4700. I think i'm gonna throw my Tial MVS on there anyways. I don't like the internal gate. Too finicky. I want some solid boost control. Set it and forget it.

but yeah it turns out the threaded section of the actuator rod was too long on my Red and wouldn't allow me to preload it as much as it needs to be. I cut about 7mm off and was able to actually preload the wg flapper.

timing under load in a 3rd gear pull is as follows.
4000: 17*
4200: 12*
4400: 11*
4800: 9*
5200: 9*
5600: 10*
6000: 11*
6400: 13*
6600: 14*
That was spiking 31psi and tapering down to 25psi by 5400 all the way to redline.
I need to make some adjustments, as the car was tuned with the late spool. I got a small amount of knock and just about shit myself.
 
Last edited:

kchaazz

Proven Member
1,169
71
Oct 2, 2002
PENSACOLA, Florida
Thats a pretty decent curve on pump with the boost that high, but if its knocking try going with 4.5K 8*, 5k 9*, 5.5k 10*, 6k 10* ,6.5k 11*, 7k 12*. You wont get away with much timing on pump. I had mine higher than yours but I noticed that it would knock during back to back pulls on the interstate, so I had to change the map bigtime. Ive got mine at 27 ish psi as of right now. Been tuning tonight a little. I could probably add a little timing around 4K but my low timing seems to help the spool, though I can feel a slight drop in torque when I initially punch it, so it definitely needs some adjustment. Im also using some experimental code in my setup so that basically, instead of grev, my map is based on rpm and maf hz. Pretty interesting and very easy to tune so far.
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Thats a pretty decent curve on pump with the boost that high, but if its knocking try going with 4.5K 8*, 5k 9*, 5.5k 10*, 6k 10* ,6.5k 11*, 7k 12*. You wont get away with much timing on pump. I had mine higher than yours but I noticed that it would knock during back to back pulls on the interstate, so I had to change the map bigtime. Ive got mine at 27 ish psi as of right now. Been tuning tonight a little. I could probably add a little timing around 4K but my low timing seems to help the spool, though I can feel a slight drop in torque when I initially punch it, so it definitely needs some adjustment. Im also using some experimental code in my setup so that basically, instead of grev, my map is based on rpm and maf hz. Pretty interesting and very easy to tune so far.

It only knocked on 1 pull when it spiked 31psi. On the others it did not, so i'm going to relieve some of the preload on the wastegate flapper and see if that fixes the spike. I think the tune is solid. But I'm going to have Drew Jones take a look at it after I swap to the Tial MVS and get it running steady on somewhere between 26 and 28psi. The red seems to REALLY wake up after 24psi.

I need to do some hard back to back pulls though. Didn't think about that.
 

kchaazz

Proven Member
1,169
71
Oct 2, 2002
PENSACOLA, Florida
Yeah, I did mine at 28psi with more timing than Im running now, and it seemed okay but I only did one hard pull. Then, when I went to get ready to maybe go to the dyno, I really reamed it, back to back to back and it knocked, sometimes up to 12 counts, so I backed things down. Im going to crank it up a bit tomorrow if I have time, but Im on the stock bottom end rebuild, and Id hate to puke a rod
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Yeah, I did mine at 28psi with more timing than Im running now, and it seemed okay but I only did one hard pull. Then, when I went to get ready to maybe go to the dyno, I really reamed it, back to back to back and it knocked, sometimes up to 12 counts, so I backed things down. Im going to crank it up a bit tomorrow if I have time, but Im on the stock bottom end rebuild, and Id hate to puke a rod

Yeah I'm in the same boat. Stock 6 bolt bottom end except for Mahle pistons. The previous owner had a machine shop in his back yard and mounted some Mahle 4032 pistons on stock 6 bolt rods.
 

rrussell

Proven Member
399
54
Jan 7, 2008
coeur d' alene, Idaho
Take the line off the wastegate, plug the end of the line then punch it in third gear and see what happens but obviously let off the pedal as soon as you hit your target boost otherwise the turbo will hit over thirty psi with no wastegate signal. If it shows a huge difference in spool, then you just need to tune the solenoid a bit more. Of course the safer way to do the above test is to borrow a friends mbc or build a cheap one real quick.

Holy hell, Rrussell, I can only imagine what Red powa would be like at that rpm! Wheres peak torque on that setup?
Still waiting to get it on the dyno but my guess would be around 4200 to 4500 rpm? I have some control on where the max boost will come in based on where the FP Red comes online.
 

JusMX141

Moderator
14,973
939
Dec 13, 2005
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
You're seeing 26psi at 4600rpm?! i have tried everything, done countless leak tests, checked base timing, drew jones tune, and my 95 tsi awd with a 6 bolk block/2g head is STILL only making 26psi by 5700rpm on a perfectly healthy HTA Red...
If it's internally-gated, make sure the cover didn't walk down and take all the tension out of the wastegate actuator. I had a customer send one for a "rebuild" with a similar complaint and there was nothing wrong with the turbo itself...the cover slid down and the flapper was hung open about 1/8".

FP should incorporate some type of locating pin like a 16G has to prevent this from happening....it's the downside of using strong actuators on turbos that don't have a bolt/flange-type clamp system for the compressor cover.
 

DSMTyson

Proven Member
1,225
10
Nov 9, 2010
Lake Charles, Louisiana
If it's internally-gated, make sure the cover didn't walk down and take all the tension out of the wastegate actuator. I had a customer send one for a "rebuild" with a similar complaint and there was nothing wrong with the turbo itself...the cover slid down and the flapper was hung open about 1/8".

FP should incorporate some type of locating pin like a 16G has to prevent this from happening....it's the downside of using strong actuators on turbos that don't have a bolt/flange-type clamp system for the compressor cover.

Would mind elaborating on what you mean by the "cover walking down"? I assume you mean the compressor housing spinning/sliding one way or the other.

How would I know? do the scribe a mark on the housing and chra?
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com OHM Racing Raven Fabrication RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned VR Speed Factory

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Latest Classifieds

Top