Cams for FP HTA Red????

[SHEARER_TSI]

I am thinking about putting and fp red on my car. The motor has grp aluminum rods and the head is fully built...same head that is/was on sheps car. The car can easily rev to 10,000 rpm. I was thinking maybe gsc s3 cams but i am looking for suggestions.

 

[toofast82]

I would think with a built aluminum rod engine and a head from shep's car, i'd figure you'd be looking at something that flows more than 60lb/min.
I'd be expecting a setup more like the one in your avatar haha
But anyways, I'm sure 272s would suffice to max out the fp red. If not then a 280cam or equivalent in gsc would be next up.
If i recall since you have an used shep head, i believe he ran like 8s on hks 272s

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

What he said.. why not a 6466, s300 or 3794 in a larger t3 housing on a longblock like that? About the minimum I would run on it

What's there rest of the setup like? What are your intentions for the car? Compression? Fuel?

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

I had a 42r on it but im going to something more streetable. I want to run a mitsu framed turbo for cost reasons. Compression is 9:1 pump gas and e85 will be used. The head is brand new john had it built for me.

 

[bastarddsm]

I'd think something like the old school HKS272's would be perfect. I run them with my HE351, which is about the size of a RED, and it works good. Home made SMIM that is about like an EVOIII intake. I make peak at about 7300, and it looses about 75hp to 9000.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

I wish they made the black for the dsm.

 

[greengoblin]

A mitsu frame turbo on your car would be silly. IMO
Some thing in a t3 housing would be best.
If you feel you just must use a dsm housing then the dsm 86 would be really nice or maybe an dsm82.

 

[phunny]

I disagree about using the 272's, get some GSC s3's and you'll be much happier. The red also easily flows 65-68lbs/min.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I had a 42r on it but im going to something more streetable. I want to run a mitsu framed turbo for cost reasons. Compression is 9:1 pump gas and e85 will be used. The head is brand new john had it built for me.

Well if you are sure set on the FP Red and its a 2.0L 9:1CR E85 motor, get yourself some adjustable gears and Kelford 272s or the slightly larger (in terms of 1mm duration and peak lobe lift) GSC S2.

 

[turbo23]

The Kelford 272 are not going be able to take advantage of the peak rpm. if it were me, I'd build the combo to turn 9K+ and a shelf cam wont work well up there with an 8cm turbine and a 60ish lbs/min charger. The s3 has a good intake duration, but the exhaust duration is to large for that turbine. I'd be wanting something in the 234@ 1mm range on the intake, and 224 on the exhaust to control the high drive psi at that rpm.. Maybe do an s3 intake cam, with some where between the s1 and s2 on the exhaust.. From a quick glance the kelford 280 intake cam, with there 272 exhaust cam would be a good combo.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The Kelford 272 are not going be able to take advantage of the peak rpm. if it were me, I'd build the combo to turn 9K+ and a shelf cam wont work well up there with an 8cm turbine and a 60ish lbs/min charger. The s3 has a good intake duration, but the exhaust duration is to large for that turbine. I'd be wanting something in the 234@ 1mm range on the intake, and 224 on the exhaust to control the high drive psi at that rpm.. Maybe do an s3 intake cam, with some where between the s1 and s2 on the exhaust.. From a quick glance the kelford 280 intake cam, with there 272 exhaust cam would be a good combo.

Just curious on this one Tyler, but won't power be falling off before 9k, even with the TD06H wheel in an 8cm2 housing @ 60lbs/min worth of exhaust flow on E85?

On a bigger 74/64 turbine wheel in the .55 BEP housing I could feel it falling off around 8500 and that was on Gasoline, Couldn't get it to pull hard through 9k (ended up setting limiter at 9250) till eventually stepping up to a 1.22A/R T4

Opening the exhaust valve later and closing the exhaust valve a few degrees sooner can real in drive pressure enough to let it breath through 9k even on a turbine that size? Are you basing this on expecting boost in the low 30s to make that airflow and a rough guess drive pressure approaching almost 2:1 (so mid-low 50psi in the collector)

Not second guessing, just trying to gather more info from those that have the experience

 

[turbo23]

Just curious on this one Tyler, but won't power be falling off before 9k, even with the TD06H wheel in an 8cm2 housing @ 60lbs/min worth of exhaust flow on E85?

On a bigger 74/64 turbine wheel in the .55 BEP housing I could feel it falling off around 8500 and that was on Gasoline, Couldn't get it to pull hard through 9k (ended up setting limiter at 9250) till eventually stepping up to a 1.22A/R T4

Opening the exhaust valve later and closing the exhaust valve a few degrees sooner can real in drive pressure enough to let it breath through 9k even on a turbine that size? Are you basing this on expecting boost in the low 30s to make that airflow and a rough guess drive pressure approaching almost 2:1 (so mid-low 50psi in the collector)

Not second guessing, just trying to gather more info from those that have the experience

For sure, the turbine side is going the biggest restriction up top. By backing off on duration though we're giving it a chance up there. If you do this right, you will have a huge torque curve. The drive pressure will be around 2:1 probably anything above 15 psi. Torque is going to fall off for sure, by controlling the amount of reversion we're controlling how fast the torque will fall due to reversion. FWIW I turn my 16g car 83-8500.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

For sure, the turbine side is going the biggest restriction up top. By backing off on duration though we're giving it a chance up there. If you do this right, you will have a huge torque curve. The drive pressure will be around 2:1 probably anything above 15 psi. Torque is going to fall off for sure, by controlling the amount of reversion we're controlling how fast the torque will fall due to reversion. FWIW I turn my 16g car 83-8500.

So what cams should i use for this?

 

[Boomdeeze]

So what cams should i use for this?

Did you not see his suggestion in post #10?

I think the 276/272 combo would go great with your setup as we have similar setups and that is what I'm looking into. With the rpms that high, going with the 280/276 combo wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

[turbo23]

So what cams should i use for this?

A Kelford 280/272 combo would work well.

Going bigger on the exhaust cam would be a bad idea. If you wanted to fine tune the cam choice later, you could measure the drive pressure and make a more educated change on the exhaust cam duration.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

Thanks.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

A Kelford 280/272 combo would work well.

Going bigger on the exhaust cam would be a bad idea. If you wanted to fine tune the cam choice later, you could measure the drive pressure and make a more educated change on the exhaust cam duration.

+1 on the drive pressure sensor, this is the second setup I have had one on and it provides a lot of insight.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

Tell me more about this sensor.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Weld a bung on your exhaust manifold, run a stainless steel line ~18 or so inches long to a pulse dampener, and thread the pressure sensor into the dampener.

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The sensor and dampener are assembled together, it's that silver "can" under the cam sensor in the shot above.

I use a 100psi ISSPro gauge.. this is a mockup of my gauge cluster, they are not in the order they will be installed but should give the general idea and ignore the silver bezel gauge, i've ordered a replacement to match the rest

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