Judge and Jury : Crankshaft trigger plate

[BREW]

I have come to the time in my rebuild (6-bolt) that I am asking for indisputable evidence as to why I would need to use the crankshaft trigger plate. I know this seems like a simple question but I have gone through most circumstances in my head and cannot come up with a sure fire reason as to what purpose I would need it to serve.

- Timing signal is sent through the cam angle sensor.
- There is no trigger plate sensor on the six bolt block.

I am not against using it, well I am if I don't have to, but I just want to hear why it is so important that I would be crazy not to use it.

Prosecutor, the floor is yours.

Brew

 

[steve]

Using the 2G trigger helps avoid you getting the random misfire errors.

Steve

 

[BREW]

Steve are you talking about the just the sensor being plugged into the harness. Or that I need to use the whole assembly (sensor and plate). If so I still don't understand why. Neither the sensor nor the plate are relaying any information that the ECU is going to see. Is the only reason that the ECU would throw the code is because it's not plugged in? I believe that the only way it (ECU) can tell its malfunctioning is if its not getting a signal, but it will be getting a signal. I guess I'm asking why it would throw a code.

It's in no way affecting performance is it?

Brew

 

[steve]

You want to use it like the original motor did.

The car's wiring is set up that way and you would have to change it to use a CAS. It's more work finding the front cover for a six bolt that works with the trigger plate but it keeps you from getting the random misfire errors that seem to plague some 1gina2g owners.

The timing information from the trigger is more accurate that what comes out of the CAS and it's that jitter that gives the 2G ECU heartburn.

Steve

 

[BREW]

to the original poster, how were you going too mount the trigger plate on a 6bolt

It's not about mounting the trigger plate, it's about mounting the sensor that reads the trigger plate's signal (Crank Angle Sensor).

That being said,

...I am NOT going to mount the crank angle sensor on the front cover.
...Therefore I can't pick up a signal from the trigger plate.
...And the trigger plate's only use is to send a signal (Correct?)

From deductive reasoning,

...I don't have a use for and do not need a trigger plate.


That is my argument.

Brew

 

[oddrob]

You mean other then the fact that it separates the balance shaft and timing belts and acts as a spacer and should be left in anyways?

 

[BISHILVR]

You mean other then the fact that it separates the balance shaft and timing belts and acts as a spacer and should be left in anyways?

Not in a 6 bolt, there is no trigger plate, only a backing plate type of setup behind the cog.

 

[Enraged78]

Why not just get DSMLink, eliminate the CAS entirely, and set DSMLink to not throw a CEL when a random misfire is detected? Seems like the easiest way to go, and having DSMLink in itself is a very good thing on a setup like the one you are describing. DSMLink also makes tuning a breeze. I just put 780cc injectors in my setup, and going from 450's to 780's was as simple as plugging in the global fuel and dead time numbers into the ECU and tuning via fuel trims. Much more simple and reliable than an SAFC setup in my humble opinion (the SAFC has no way to compensate for dead time). Not only that, if you go with a 2G CAS and if it ever dies on you, you will not be able to start the car until you rip the timing assembly apart and replace it. The 2G CAS is a nice to have, but if you're going 6 bolt, it almost makes no sense at all.

Matt.

 

[blackGSX2g]

First off, the 6-bolt motor has a plate that goes between the balance shaft sprocket and the crank sprocket. You need this plate as it has the timing notch needed to set your timing. Get one off of a 6-bolt motor.

Secondly, Steve is correct in saying that if you modify a 2g front case to fit a 1g block, you will not have the misfire problems that many 1g in a 2g guys get. The downside to this is that it requires machining and many of the people I have seen do that run into problems leaking oil around the front case area.

It is far simpler to just use the complete 6-bolt bottom end and wire in a 1g CAS. You get full control over your base timing, and its not hard to wire it in at all.

I have a 93-94 black top 'hall effect' cam angle sensor and don't have any of the random misfire problems some people get. It depends on the car, but of the 3 cars I know of around here that have the 6-bolt swap, none of them have had plaguing issues with misfire.