Is the stock SMIC killing potential gains from EVOIII 16g?

[EdwardNorth]

Hey all,

I do remember the good things that I said in my review post for the E316G. However, over the last few days I've had lots of opportunity to play with my new EVOIII 16G setup, and I've changed my mind. After seeing it in action for the last few days, I hate to say it but I'm getting pretty disappointed. In all honesty, it doesn't seem like my Talon is any faster at all than it was with the T-2small. The only gain I've truly noticed is in 3rd gear and above if I'm on the freeway at 60-70 MPH and I get on it, and then just a little improvement in pull. I've tried it at 10 psi, not much faster. Installed my fuel pump and turned it up to 15psi, not really any faster than 10 psi on the EVO or 15psi on the T-25. Since installing the fuel pump I've tried every boost setting in between too, and still no real improvement.

What could be the problem? I have a full exhaust, intake, ported EVERYTHING, and the Walboro 190 fuel pump. The only stock things remaining that could be changed are the SMIC, IC piping, injectors, and adding an AFC. But even at 10,12,13, whatever PSI it should be noticably faster shouldn't it? The only thing I can come up with is that the stock SMIC is KILLING any possible gain this turbo could have given me. I am therefore looking at maybe the Hahn or Dejon Tool SMIC to solve my problems. FYI, I'm not interested in going FMIC. Besides, the Hahn SMIC will support 400 horses, which is more than I will be trying to squeeze out of her.

I was under the impression that with the mods I already had (and especially the fuel pump upgrade) that my Talon would become an entirely different animal. But in all honesty this setup has let me down so far. I was expecting a much faster car and what I actually got is a car that feels much slower. I hate to say it but there it is. So what do you guys think? Would a good SMIC bring out the power of the turbo and take my Talon where I was expecting it to already be?

Thanks guys.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

Start with doing a boost leak test, sounds like you're leaking alot out because that should have been a huge improbement. Then I'd say at least get IC piping, but a bigger intercooler would help too.

 

[EdwardNorth]

Well, I seem to be getting proper indications on my aftermarket boost gauge. Could I still have a boost leak despite that?

 

[98RedGs]

Your stock parts are killing your performance and your love for the evo16g.

I got a bigt28 sittin in my garage that needs a rebuild and I was on 19psi on it with the stock smic and wasn't much faster.. Now, that I am sitting on the evo16g I can honestly say it pulls like a BEAST compared to a t25/t28 in my opinion.

I love the turbo actually...
You have stock ic piping and a stock sidemount.... The pump isn't going to make a night/day difference and your probably just heatsoaking the smic when you drive it at lower speeds that's why you notice no gains lower than 60-70.


Are you also still using the STOCK BOV?

 

[EdwardNorth]

Thanks for the reply.

No, no. I have a Greddy Type-S BOV as well as other stuff I didn't list. I *REALLY* need to update my profile...

At any rate, I guess my IC piping is somewhat modded. I have a Buscher Racing upper IC pipe that runs from the IC to just past the BOV flange, then I have the roped-hose stocker the rest of the way to the intake mani. From what I've read though, IC piping doesn't really affect performance, at least it wouldn't be completely negating the benefits of the E316G I don't think.

I got the pump so I could potentially run up to around 15 PSI or so. I didn't figure that it would increase performance in and of itself, just that it would let me run somewhat higher boost.

I know that the E316G is a great turbo but I'm just bummed that I'm not feeling the difference right now. Considering the rest of the supporting mods that I *do* have, I just want to make sure that upgrading the SMIC will be the difference that brings out the turbo's potential.

Glad that your E316G setup is working nicely, I'm just hoping to share in your type of success here ASAP. When you dump a grand on a turbo upgrade and spend 4 days doing the swap, the last thing you want is all that work to be for nothing.

So at any rate, the thing that's plaguing me here is the lack of upgraded IC, right? I want to see a huge performance gain in the 10-15 psi range before I buy injectors and an AFC to allow turning up the boost beyond that.

 

[2gGSX]

ah 98RedGs beat me to the punch
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html for a homemade leak tester.
Try checking for leaks, and maybe upgrading at least the upper "L" pipe and get a new BOV if you're still on the stock 2g one.
http://www.dejontool.web.aplus.net/DSM-2g SIC.htm for your IC piping.
As for your SMIC consider a supra TT SMIC, as those will be cheaper than the dejon and hahn

 

[98RedGs]

Thanks for the reply.

No, no. I have a Greddy Type-S BOV as well as other stuff I didn't list. I *REALLY* need to update my profile...

Glad that your E316G setup is working nicely, I'm just hoping to share in your type of success here ASAP. When you dump a grand on a turbo upgrade and spend 4 days doing the swap, the last thing you want is all that work to be for nothing.

So at any rate, the thing that's plaguing me here is the lack of upgraded IC, right? I want to see a huge performance gain in the 10-15 psi range before I buy injectors and an AFC to allow turning up the boost beyond that.

You need a frontmount or a super sidemount.
Pick one and then get an safc to tune it a little bit and DON'T FORGET A LOGGER.

Other than that that's the only things I can think of that are killing your hp/tq gains.
Your heatsoaking.

O and Update your profile please.

 

[EdwardNorth]

You need a frontmount or a super sidemount.
Pick one and then get an safc to tune it a little bit and DON'T FORGET A LOGGER.

Other than that that's the only things I can think of that are killing your hp/tq gains.
Your heatsoaking.

O and Update your profile please.

I'm not interested in doing an FMIC. Which SMIC do you personally recommend? Specifically the Dejon Tool "Super" Sidemount, or would the Hahn or ADFX SMICs be just as good?

Thanks for the replies everyone.

P.S. Finally updated my profile!

 

[Dieselboy]

Your stock parts are killing your performance and your love for the evo16g.

I got a bigt28 sittin in my garage that needs a rebuild and I was on 19psi on it with the stock smic and wasn't much faster.. Now, that I am sitting on the evo16g I can honestly say it pulls like a BEAST compared to a t25/t28 in my opinion.

I love the turbo actually...
You have stock ic piping and a stock sidemount.... The pump isn't going to make a night/day difference and your probably just heatsoaking the smic when you drive it at lower speeds that's why you notice no gains lower than 60-70.


Are you also still using the STOCK BOV?

Well said . Ryan made a good point, are you running the stock 2G BOV still? If your on a budget, consider the MKIV Supra sidemount as well. I felt the different vs. stock on my buddys '90 with a small 16G, and it was quite an improvement over stock. You can probably cook up a kit for under $200.

 

[sweet97]

I have a '93 AWD with the EVO manifold, 02 housing and turbo all ported. I had a knocking problem and found out my initial timing was way off. I also have a 2.5" mandrel exhaust ans MAF_Translator set up as a blow thru in a dejon pipe along with a djon intake pipe. I just added the Scanmaster and that is awesome. Right now I'm cheating with 5 gallons of 112 mixed in. Oh i have 550's. Running 18 psi is fine even without the 112. It pulls hard but I could go for more. You really need to raise the boost as the turbo was meant for mre tha 15 PSI. Get some 550's and the Scanner becaus with it you don't need a logger as it tells you th info you want while you are driiving. Mark

 

[98RedGs]

I'm not interested in doing an FMIC. Which SMIC do you personally recommend? Specifically the Dejon Tool "Super" Sidemount, or would the Hahn or ADFX SMICs be just as good?

Thanks for the replies everyone.

P.S. Finally updated my profile!

Dejontool Smaller FMIC is what I Recommend because my friend bought a super sidemount and is soon going to change to a fmic....

I say the dejontool sidemount is fine.

 

[98RedGs]

Well said . Ryan made a good point, are you running the stock 2G BOV still? If your on a budget, consider the MKIV Supra sidemount as well. I felt the different vs. stock on my buddys '90 with a small 16G, and it was quite an improvement over stock. You can probably cook up a kit for under $200.

#1 - My name is JOHN
#2 - Scroll up to his 2nd or 3rd post... he's got a greddy-type-s

 

[midnght]

If you are slower or as fast as you were with the T-25 you have a problem. Find the problem, solve it, and then post it up.

That turbo puts out some great numbers. I know a guy on here that is making over 300whp with that turbo and that puts the T25 to shame.


If you are taking suggestions on the intercooler solution, just go with a FMIC (since it was originally used on a larger FMIC setup) if you a serious at all with your DSM and think you might "potentially" go bigger. To get everything out of that turbo run it with a Frontmount, you will thank yourself for not purchasing the intercooler setup twice. You will see great things with that turbo. (Trust us, you will)

 

[darkness_fallz]

I'm not interested in doing an FMIC. Which SMIC do you personally recommend? Specifically the Dejon Tool "Super" Sidemount, or would the Hahn or ADFX SMICs be just as good?

Thanks for the replies everyone.

P.S. Finally updated my profile!

Why on earth are you not interested in doing a FMIC? A mid-sized FMIC will out perform almost any SMIC on the market......

But if you are serious about absolutely not wanting an FMIC, go with the Dejon Tool- I've heard the best word of mouth about it and think about getting a intercooler spray kit (or making your own if you're that kind of a guy). A Supra MkIV is pretty slick too if you can get a hold of one for a decent price.

 

[EdwardNorth]

Why on earth are you not interested in doing a FMIC? A mid-sized FMIC will out perform almost any SMIC on the market......

Honestly? Because I just don't like the way they look. And since I can meet my Talon's performance goals easily with an SMIC, it's not even an issue.

 

[Dieselboy]

#1 - My name is JOHN
#2 - Scroll up to his 2nd or 3rd post... he's got a greddy-type-s

1). SORRY..., I got you confused with someone else....

2). SORRY..., didnt see that part. I believe one other person passed up that fact as well.

3). Ease up a little bit, will ya? People make mistakes.

 

[98RedGs]

1). SORRY..., I got you confused with someone else....

2). SORRY..., didnt see that part. I believe one other person passed up that fact as well.

3). Ease up a little bit, will ya? People make mistakes.

Nah I know you were confusing me with someone else. It wasn't a big deal I was just letting you know my name was John. I figured you were confusing me with 98Silver_GS which is Ryan.

No biggy.

And I was just pointing out that he had a type-s.
That's all... Dam... people think I'm that mean.

 

[Dieselboy]

No biggie, its almost impossible to tell emotion on the net. Sorry for the mix up (and yeah, thats exactly who I got you mixed up with) .

 

[temfate]

Why on earth are you not interested in doing a FMIC? A mid-sized FMIC will out perform almost any SMIC on the market......

But if you are serious about absolutely not wanting an FMIC, go with the Dejon Tool- I've heard the best word of mouth about it and think about getting a intercooler spray kit (or making your own if you're that kind of a guy). A Supra MkIV is pretty slick too if you can get a hold of one for a decent price.

I too have decided not to go with a FMIC, but rather yet, I'm going to attempt water injection in order to cool it properly. Using a WOT switch, and two injections (one before intercooler inlet, one right after outlet) and metering it properly you should be able to maintain the exact same temps or lower than any FMIC... It's just the road less traveled...

 

[tdyyalot]

Hey, how is your type-S connected? I recently resolved a problem with my under-performing B28 by eliminating the pressure feed to the small nipple on the type-S. Turns out that even with the adjustment screw at max, I was still leaking boost at only 13-15 psi. After disconnecting the lower nipple I experienced a some compressor surge so I removed the small spring inside the type-S and now everything works perfectly. The turbo spools faster and now 15 psi feels much, much faster than 15 psi did before. I must have been leaking a lot of air out of that thing. Just something cheap that you might want to try. -Funny thing is, when I boost-leak-checked the thing with an air compressor, it didn't show any signs of leakage. Go figure?

 

[Sephroth57]

im having the exact problems you are right now, cept i have even more mods. pretty much everything you have +injectors, AFC, full IC pipes and exhaust. i did boost leak test and it seems like everything is fine. only thing i can think of is my timing could be off but how would i check that without pulling apart a ton of crap

 

[DannyD]

On my small 16g I have some problems with heatsoak. I believe on a hot day at the track I had the same trap speed at 14psi(may have been 12psi dont remember), and 18psi. I believe I trapped like 92ish, and on a cold day i have trapped 99 on the exact same setup.

 

[gbpkr]

I think your biggest problem is you NEED bigger injectors and an AFC. I had a set up close to yours and when I first got the turbo, I did not have injectors or an afc. I felt the same way you do now. But, I knew that I would have to get injectors and fuel control to realize the difference. If you have more air you need more fuel.

When I added the injectors and AFC, I totally noticed the difference. With the EVO 16g, 3" turbo back exhaust, 255 fuel pump and the stock SMIC, I ran a 13.3.

I think injectors and an AFC will help you more than an intercooler will at this point. i just got a FMIC and I do need more tuning, but I did not notice as big of a gain as I did with the AFC and the injectors when I first installed them.

Plus, the Evo 16g likes higher boost. On my SMIC w/ injectors and Afc, I ran 17-18 psi and I was very impressed.

 

[Gigaah]

I too have decided not to go with a FMIC, but rather yet, I'm going to attempt water injection in order to cool it properly. Using a WOT switch, and two injections (one before intercooler inlet, one right after outlet) and metering it properly you should be able to maintain the exact same temps or lower than any FMIC... It's just the road less traveled...

As I was reading I was going to sugjest just that. Read up good on it so you don't kill yourself and don't try to save too much money and do a crappy job. If you won't budge on keepin the smic water injection is the other alternative...probably cheaper too but don't forget to fill the tank

:edit: They sell kits that turn on via a pressure sensor. You can set them to start injection at X lbs of boost. I think the kits were around $220 for the ones I saw.

 

[EdwardNorth]

Well, I decided to go with the Dejon Tool Super SMIC and ordered it this morning. The ADFX was very appealing @ $360 shipped but I feel that I will have better overall success and potential with the Dejon. I also ordered their Lower IC pipe as it looks to significantly smooth/straighten out the path between the Turbo outlet and the IC inlet. In my opinion it can only help. The last stock parts aside from fuel will then be my "accordion" intake pipe and the "S" portion of the upper IC pipe.

I understand that Injectors and an AFC can only help as well, but in all honesty my EVOIII 16G setup @ 15 psi with just a pump and 94 octane should be much faster and more powerful than my T-25 was. And until I get it there I won't be upping the boost any higher than 15-16. Eventually, when I want to push 18-20 psi, I will do injectors and an AFC.

I'll hopefully get it tomorrow evening and maybe I'll do the install tomorrow night. I'll let you know how it goes and if it solves this "problem" and puts me where I should have been all along with my E316G.

Keep your fingers crossed and wish me luck!