Is the charcoal canister needed to pass smog?

[ehc14]

I've searched around and wasn't able to find a thread that answered my question well so I am posting one. I am posting in the newbie section because, well, it's a pretty newbie question.

I'm looking to drop my battery to the subframe via Gofer's tech article, but I still need to pass emissions and the mod requires you to delete the charcoal canister.

I am curious, is it something that I can get by with not having? I live in northern Colorado.

If I CAN get by with deleting it, what all do I need to do? What needs to be capped, etc?

Also, what exactly is the EGR block off plate for? Excuse me for not being to knowledgeable about the emission system in our cars. I'm definitely ready to learn.

If I CANT get by with deleting it, is it something that would be worth moving?

I appreciate all responses and please don't talk down to me if there is another thread already covering this, simply link it so I can read!

Was looking around and saw that the 97-99 DSM's have the charcoal canisters behind the bumper, would it be possible/recommended/easier to move mine there?

 

[ehc14]

Any insight on this?

 

[DSM1G90]

Check with Colo's Emissions law since every state is different in that area.

No direct answer can be given here.

Good luck - DSM

 

[ehc14]

What about some of the other questions I asked? Any input there at all?

 

[ErikTande]

I passed in Denver with the EGR blocked off, charcoal canister removed, a bunch of vacuum hoses removed and a vented catch can.

Your experience may vary depending on who does the visual inspection. But in Colorado, they really just check for a CAT, they check the gas cap and they make sure all emissions are within spec. Meet those three and normally you're good to go.

 

[We're on Boost]

Just off the top of my head, your car Erik, being OBD I, and the OP's car, being OBD II would probably be tested differently. I think. Wouldn't they plug into the OP's OBD port and read trouble codes? On your car they probably just test with a sniffer and look at the other 2 things you mentioned.

OP, are you wanting to relocate the battery to make room for an aftermarket intake manifold?

 

[ehc14]

I passed in Denver with the EGR blocked off, charcoal canister removed, a bunch of vacuum hoses removed and a vented catch can.

Your experience may vary depending on who does the visual inspection. But in Colorado, they really just check for a CAT, they check the gas cap and they make sure all emissions are within spec. Meet those three and normally you're good to go.

I know this is a stupid question, but what exactly does the EGR do blocked off? I guess I'm just really not too familiar with the emissions system of the car. I've looked over the PCV diagram on here that is posted and honestly am still a bit confused.
I've seen the blockoff plate for sale before, is it something worth picking up?

Just off the top of my head, your car Erik, being OBD I, and the OP's car, being OBD II would probably be tested differently. I think. Wouldn't they plug into the OP's OBD port and read trouble codes? On your car they probably just test with a sniffer and look at the other 2 things you mentioned.

OP, are you wanting to relocate the battery to make room for an aftermarket intake manifold?

You got it.
On both of those things. When I had my car tested last, they plugged into the OBDII.
And yea, I want to relocate for both a SMIM and that is the location I thought may be fit for a catch can, but this car is street driven and being legal is a concern.
I suppose I could do a vac delete and reinstall for smog, but that seems a bit troublesome.

 

[hotrodssnova]

EGR=exhaust gas recirculation. The egr only operates when the car is warmed to operating temp, and only in vacuum part of operations. It reduces the nox in the exhaust.
Egr does not open under boost.

 

[We're on Boost]

I imagine you could relocate the evap/canister stuff. But probably the heavy-modders have a way to delete the evap and EGR stuff and still get through emissions. Having never modified an OBD-II car, I don't know how you would do that. I just looked through the trouble code chart for 95-98 DSM. I see at least 12 codes that all refer to either EGR, EVAP, or Evaporative. They are all on page 4-45 in the Chilton manual #50400 for Eclipse/Talon. I'll post a scan of that page below.

Yeah the aftermarket intake manifolds like Magnus and JMF all are quite a bit wider to the passenger side, pushing the throttle body farther outboard, pushing the upper intercooler pipe farther outboard, going right through the battery. I've been thinking about that myself lately. I really don't want to relocate my battery. But maybe I'll have to. Possibly all the way back to the hatch/trunk. My BMW is that way from the factory and it is a sweet setup the way they did it.

Could you do me a favor? When you click on the yellow bar over this picture to see it full size in a new window, do you get pop-up adds horning in on the new window? Or does it just show you the picture no problem? You do have to click on it again in the new window to make it full size.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[ehc14]

I imagine you could relocate the evap/canister stuff. But probably the heavy-modders have a way to delete the evap and EGR stuff and still get through emissions. Having never modified an OBD-II car, I don't know how you would do that. I just looked through the trouble code chart for 95-98 DSM. I see at least 12 codes that all refer to either EGR, EVAP, or Evaporative. They are all on page 4-45 in the Chilton manual #50400 for Eclipse/Talon. I'll post a scan of that page below.

Yeah the aftermarket intake manifolds like Magnus and JMF all are quite a bit wider to the passenger side, pushing the throttle body farther outboard, pushing the upper intercooler pipe farther outboard, going right through the battery. I've been thinking about that myself lately. I really don't want to relocate my battery. But maybe I'll have to. Possibly all the way back to the hatch/trunk. My BMW is that way from the factory and it is a sweet setup the way they did it.

Could you do me a favor? When you click on the yellow bar over this picture to see it full size in a new window, do you get pop-up adds horning in on the new window? Or does it just show you the picture no problem? You do have to click on it again in the new window to make it full size.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

When I clicked on it, it just opened the picture bigger no problems. Thank you for that too.

I really don't want to relocate the battery to the trunk, but at this point I am considering it. Seems a bit unnecessary to add the 20lbs in weight in cables/box/kill switch and spend a good chunk of money when people have managed the mod of clearing the space for free without adding any weight. Plus I'm pretty stupid when it comes to car electronics, I won't even lie about that one. Haha

 

[We're on Boost]

Thanks for the feedback on the picture window. There was another user who was getting pop-up ads on my pictures, so I was thinking about getting pi**ed off at Image Shack. I use it because you can select "Do not Resize" and it will give you back the same exact jpeg or png quality that you put in from your computer. Same number of KB and pixels, not dumbed-down.

On the EVAP eliminate, I don't think you would want to plug the hose that comes from the gas tank. Seems to me you would then have a pressurized gas tank. I have bad memories of pressurized gas tanks. I once had a 1970 Mercedes gas motor car (6 cyl) that had a pressurized gas tank. It was designed that way, came that way from the factory. The stupid thing would split gas tanks. Fortunately they always split on the top, so to prevent them from leaking you just wouldn't fill them up all the way. It was completely stupid and MB never came up with a fix for it. That car split gas tanks for 15 years.

 

[gho5tone]

With a 95 car they shouldn't be testing your computers.

When I did smog all they check for was EGR,vacuum lines, and gas cap. Then they do the rolling test.

I would assume if you move the charcoal canister you'll be ok because they don't really look for that in my state of CA at least that's what I experienced.

 

[Insane20]

Not sure how the laws where you are apply but in pa the rule is if your vehicle was equipped with it from the factory it needs to be there and hooked up. That apply from emissions control down to sway bars .

 

[ehc14]

I guess I will go out there and see if I can move the charcoal canister to a more feasible location so I can drop the battery.

Thank you everyone for the input.
Yikes on that MB by the way, sounds like a pain in the ass!

Have any of you guys done a vac delete and passed smog? Also I know CO is MUCH more lenient than CA.

 

[Insane20]

I just exempt mine every year but I did run it on manual mode once just to see if it would pass. My HC were a little too high, granted I don't have a cat or any of the factory emmissions control parts but it was close to passing . If I were to put a cat on it I bet it would have passed though.

 

[Xploitn]

A guy in my area just posted his success in passing emissions without a cat (I dont know his setup or if he had DSMlink to suppress a CEL). It varies by experience and state as others have said.

If you end up deleting the vacuum lines and do not have DSMlink. Keep the solenoids plugged into the harness and they wont throw a CEL. My 2ga has no vacuum lines, charcoal cannister, and a EGR plate and runs without a CEL because I kept the solenoids and kept them plugged into the the harness. I've never tried to get the car through emissions because the DMV won't allow me to transfer the title.

 

[ehc14]

I just exempt mine every year but I did run it on manual mode once just to see if it would pass. My HC were a little too high, granted I don't have a cat or any of the factory emmissions control parts but it was close to passing . If I were to put a cat on it I bet it would have passed though.

What do you mean by you "exempt" it every year?

Can't switch to your name, yikes!

 

[Insane20]

Im a pa state safety inspector / emissions inspector. If you catch my drift.

Lol what are you using to tune with? Basically the main reason vehicles fail the old test is be cause of hc hydro carbons. So if u had something to tune with that could lean it out during the 2 speed idle test you should pass.

 

[ehc14]

Im a pa state safety inspector / emissions inspector. If you catch my drift.

Lol what are you using to tune with? Basically the main reason vehicles fail the old test is be cause of hc hydro carbons. So if u had something to tune with that could lean it out during the 2 speed idle test you should pass.

Hahaha tricky, I'm jealous!

I was given an SAFC for free so that's what it's on right now, just waiting to get my ECU socketed to pick up link. But short term - SAFC

 

[Insane20]

Do you have a wideband?

 

[We're on Boost]

So if u had something to tune with that could lean it out during the 2 speed idle test you should pass.

That's what I do, lean it down just to the point where my O2 sensor (front O2 sensor for you guys) just barely stops oscillating. It flat-lines at 0 volts at idle and the other speed they check while the car is running in neutral. Do this with my ecu+ which makes it real easy. I pass without a cat that way. But my car being OBD-I, might be kind of irrelevant. There's no rear O2 sensor. I can hardly wait until my car is 25 years old. That's pretty darned soon. Then I'm pretty sure they don't require emission inspections any more.

Keep the solenoids plugged into the harness and they wont throw a CEL. My 2ga has no vacuum lines, charcoal cannister, and a EGR plate and runs without a CEL because I kept the solenoids and kept them plugged into the the harness. I've never tried to get the car through emissions because the DMV won't allow me to transfer the title.

This is kind of what I was thinking. Bummer though about the title. That's where it really helps to have state agencies that try to be helpful, instead of trying not to be helpful. We're pretty good on that here in WA.

 

[ehc14]

Do you have a wideband?

Yes, I have an Innovate LC-1.

 

[Insane20]

Use the safc to Lean it out for the test and just watch your afr readings.

 

[ehc14]

Use the safc to Lean it out for the test and just watch your afr readings.

May be a stupid question but since you are an inspector you may know haha.
Do they look at the AFR on my wideband? Any particular reason they might think my car is running like shit being so lean or read the the lie that I'm leaning it out for the test? Don't know why they would care if it is lean but figured I'd ask.

 

[Hug_the_retard]

Too bad you guys don't live in Kentucky.. We don't have any emissions tests or inspections here.. I know someone with their exhaust ran out their front bumper and they got their car tagged...... Good luck guys!!!