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Is it worth it????? 5spd swap??

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talon4lifetsi

15+ Year Contributor
126
0
Feb 5, 2008
levittown, Pennsylvania
I was looking to do a 6bolt in my 97 tsi. But my trans is a auto and I wanna make it a 5spd. Just lookin for some input and is it worth it??? At this time my motor is blown and I need to swap it out any way.

Thanks-LEN:thumb:
 
You just need a clutch, flywheel, shifter cables and shifter, clutch peddle assembly, clutch lines, master cylinder, manual trans mount
Manual tranny, t-case, axles for the front, half shaft, drive shaft, also need a manual ecu, and you may need a manual engine harness.

Search next time this has been covered many times before
 
I read up on it. The post where very old though. Just want to see If it is done often or not.

Thanks len
 
It isn't that hard. You need to get your hands on quite a few manual parts (pedal assembly, shifter assembly, shift cables, center console, manual dead pedal, transmission, transfer case, clutch, flywheel, starter, flywheel bolts (remove the flexplate spacer from crank), manual axles and halfshaft, clutch hydraulics (master/slave cylinder, lines, etc),etc.

You also could use the automatic harness, but you need to keep the gear selector sensor attached to make the car think it is in neutral. It is easier to use a manual engine harness and ECU, but not necessary.

I think it really depends on what you are looking for. If you already have a heavily modified car, then I would keep it and do the manual swap, or look in
to doing an IPT automatic race transmission for $3-5K == it will cost just as much for a professional to do the swap with the parts; not including a transmission rebuild. Check out their website: IPT Performance Transmissions Torque Converters and Transmission Parts for Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Import vehicles their transmissions have been proven into the 9's by several people.

If you have a lightly modified car or stock car, then sell it and purchase the manual transmission car instead. Either way, it is still your call.

Good luck,
 
I was going to do it but I stopped midway through because the transmission was not good, and I didn't feel like it anymore. So I just stayed auto. I'm sure that if the transmission would have been fine, I would have followed through. I had EVERYTHING else done besides putting the transmission and t-case in. It was not hard at all for what I did. If you need some 5 spd swap parts, PM me I still have a lot of stuff.
 
Ok, my good friend Clint did the writeup for you and posted it in the newbie section -- but I am going to directly link it to this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/289039-2g-awd-5spd-swap.html

I'm posting this here to help the guy in the drivetrain tech section because A. i've just completed this swap in its entirety on my 97 tsi and B. I can't post in the drivetrain tech section. Either way, i'd like to try to help anybody I can with this.

Transmission/Transfer case/Rear end/Axels

Obviously you need both the tcase and trans, and the auto transfer case IS different than it's manual counterpart. Not only in gear ratio, but in mounting position. Also, if you use a 95-96 transmission you need to use a 95-96 transfer case. Same goes for 97-99 transmission and transfercase. If you can find one, a 97+ trans and transfer case is your best choice. Not only do they usually have lower miles but they have double synchro'd 1st and 2nd gear, (gotta love smooth downshifting into first gear!) and are a little stronger than the 95-96 trans.

Also keep in mind that you need the passenger side and rear manual transmission mounts as they are different and the autos WON'T work.

The reverse light switch on the manual trans can be used with the automatic transmission wiring harness, however it will require some cutting, soldering and shrinkwraping. I recomend getting the plug off a manual harness and wiring it in. I'll get some details about the exact wires to use if you PM me.

You need to swap out the rear diff for a manual car's rear diff. Lsd axels match lsd rear diffs, regardless of auto or manual gearing. If you had an auto lsd rear diff and you purchase a non-lsd manual rear diff you NEED to swap the axels as well, and vice versa. Year of the rear diff does not matter.

You can use auto front axels in a manual trans car, however you have to use the manual transmissions half shaft. The auto is longerer by about 1/4 inch or so, the axel does not need to be swapped though, if your trying to save some cash.

You obviously need a flywheel and clutch of choice. The auto crank has a spacer on it that needs to be pulled out and you need to use manual flywheel bolts.

You need to use the 5 speed starter. The auto starter gear does not push out as far as the manual one, and if you use the auto one on accident (like I did) it won't crank the motor over at all.


Wiring harness

You CAN use the auto wiring harness. I already mentioned that you need to rewire the reverse light switch.

You need to hook up the sensor that tells the ecu what gear/position the auto transmission is in. Just put the auto trans in the park position, use a 10mm socket to pull out the bolt that holds the sensor in place and plug it back into the correct connector on the car. I can grab a picture of the sensor i'm talking about if you PM me.

After you get the motor and trans in and wired up you'll notice a lot of plugs and wired you don't need to hook up anymore. I just zip tied mine together and left them hidden in the engine bay, for my personal reasons.

Unplug and toss the tcu. You can use the auto ecu if you'd like.

You do not need to do anything special with the clutch safety switch. Which is the sensor that usually needs to be activated by pushing the clutch down for the car to start. There isn't one on the auot harness and since you have a 2g you don't need to do anything at all. However you won't need to hold the clutch down to start the car, so don't forget that. LOL.

If you'd like to feel free to swap in a manual wiring harness, but it's unecessary, kind of a pain and adds aan unecessary cost.

Misc.

You can use the auto radiator, but it has holes in the bottom for the trans cooler. I'm picky and used the manual trans rad, but the auto trans rad can be used and won't cause any problems.

You need to use the manual brake pedal assembly, and clutch pedal assembly. You might be able to get away with cutting down the size of your auto brake pedal and bending the bracket but I highly suggest you just get the right one. There are only 6 bolts and a alignment pin holding the pedal assembly to the car.

The clutch pedal is mounted by two bolts holding it to the dash support and 2 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder in place. You need to drill 3 holes in the firewall to fit the clutch master. The blueprint of where to drill the holes is on the firewall, behind some foam matting, on the inside of the car. Use a 90 adapter with the correct size drill bit/hole saw. If I remember correctly it was a 7/16" drill bit and a 1 1/2" hole saw. I could be wrong though, so double check. The clutch master and clutch pedal are attached with the same alignment pin with a cotter pin setup as the brake pedal so don't forget to grab that when your pulling the stuff off the donor car.

Once the clutch master and slave are bolted in place you need to run a line. You can use the stock line but I like using stainless braided brake line. The fitting you need for the clutch master is a straight male 7/16-24 to male -3an with a concave seat on the 7/16-24 side. The fitting for the the clutch slave is a 10mm banjo bolt to male -3an. I used about 96" of -3an line, but I wanted to run the line incongneto and route it cleanly. You could probably get away with less.

You need the manual shifter assembly and shifter. I really like a stock shifter or B&M short shifter. Anything else is pretty much garbage. The entire assembly bolts directly into place of the auto shifter. Also the dead pedal is the same between the auot and 5 speed.

To get the auto shifter out you need to disconnect the cable that goes into the engine bay, which there are 2 10mm nuts holding the cable to the firewall. You can leave the cable attached to the shifter assembly, but don't forget those nuts or you'll have a hell of a time pulling it. You'll also need to pull the cable that goes to the brake pedal and key assembly. These make sure that you push the brakes and have the car in park before you try to start it, and you don't need em anymore. Once all those are pulled use a 12mm socket and pull the 4 bolts holding the shift base to the unibody. Pull the entire assembly out and replace with the 5 speed assembly. Make sure you remember to put the 2 10mm nuts back in place on the firewall or you'll look some shifter feel and accuracy, plus it'll feel a little more notchy.


That should be everything if i'm not mistaken, and it can be done in a day with all the parts and a lot of drive. I suggest planning 2 weekends if you get frustrated easily.

All in all it can be worth it for a couple reasons.

If your trans is taking a crap, and you'd be eating the cost anyways.
If you can't find a clean 5 speed replacement.
Your extremely motivated.
Etc.

Don't plan on being able to sell all the auto parts, and if you want a good trans/transfer case/rear end, etc plan on spending a decent amount of money.

I say this can be done for as little as 1k if you go the cheap untested trans route and the sky's the limit on the other end. I spent about 2.5k total, rebuilt trans, new clutch, remachine flywheel, lsd rear end with axels, all the misc parts. Plus I did all the work, so I saved a ton there.

Either way, I hope this helps in letting you know what's all involved in a 5 speed swap, and you can make your own decision on wether it's worth it or not. If I got anything wrong feel free to correct me, but i'm pretty sure it's all there. And if anybody needs any help feel free to PM me with questions.

-Clint
 
Ok, my good friend Clint did the writeup for you and posted it in the newbie section -- but I am going to directly link it to this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/289039-2g-awd-5spd-swap.html

Excellent write up. I read through most and browsed the rest. It all seemed spot on! I'll bring up [again]. You need a M/T tranny mount and 4 nuts. I say this because the A/T uses 3 nuts to attach the tranny mount to the transmission and the M/T uses 4 nuts. Also the mounts are completely different, so if you doing the swap then I suggest looking into getting new tranny mounts and plates.
The part number for the nuts is: MF434106 (order a bunch, they cost pennies!)
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Picture of M/T tranny mount
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Also, have fun with the flex-plate spacer. I used an air hammer and spun it out. Some people report that they didn't have a problem and others (including myself) had to fight that stupid spacer!
Here's a picture of it still on the crank:
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Speedo gear? You DON'T need a speed sensor, you NEED a speedometer gear. A lot of A/T to M/T tech articles I read during my swap discussed the need for a new speed sensor. As you can clearly see in the picture the speed sensors are the same. The speedometer gears are not! The speedometer gear is like $20 and the speed sensor is $50. I wasted $50 because of some shoddy write-ups.
The part number for the M/T speedometer gear is: MD749150
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Finished with pedal install...
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More pictures of the swap are on my blog. I thought I would share a few to help you out. Overall, it isn't bad to do. Just have fun with it and take your time.
 
My 1G swap made a huge difference, lost 50 lbs and my 1/4 mile dropped more than a full second, with 60 foot times improving by .9 of a second.
 
You just need a clutch, flywheel, shifter cables and shifter, clutch peddle assembly, clutch lines, master cylinder, manual trans mount
Manual tranny, t-case, axles for the front, half shaft, drive shaft, also need a manual ecu, and you may need a manual engine harness.

Search next time this has been covered many times before

WRONG! he does not need a manual ecu or harness.. 2g autos have the 450cc inj that a 5 speed does. he also wont need front axles. you may need a 5 speed rear end..they might have differ ratios.

It is worth it. worst part will be installing the peddles.
 
The car is front wheel drive though.. The rears won't make a differents!!!

Thanks everyone I'm very thankful!!!

Any other info feel free!!!:thumb:
 
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