Intercooler???

[Chicco]

hi GUYS!!! just visited my mechanic last night and asked his opinion why I can't feel so much power in my 16g turbo. what i feel is just a lil difference only in my old t25. he told me that I need to have a bigger IC installed so that it can suffice the air needed. Is it true? iread the threads here and I learned the operation of the IC. but I just want to know if it will greatly help me a lot. my car setup is almost stock except for the following: 190 walbro FP , 16g turbo, 2.5" straight pipe, 3" muffler and replaced the stock air filter to K&N.
please help coz i dont want to spend on nothing.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

You need some bigger fuel injectors and a way to tune it. Such as an safc, keydiver chip, dsmlink, etc. Then you can use the 16g power more effectively. The intercooler isnt needed but you could put it on for future upgrades. An intercooler alone wont fix the problem.

James

 

[Chicco]

thanks vette. but as of now i am short financially. with all of those you have mentioned. i need your suggestion on where to start. thanks

 

[tehehodi]

tuning tools is my suggestion

 

[Chicco]

to tell you honestly tehehodi. im just new in the dsm world. that is why im reading threads all over and all over again. can you tell me these tuning tools it will be a great help.

 

[Joe Cool]

You'll definitely want to go with bigger injectors to supply the needed fuel to your turbo. You only feel a small difference now because you cannot give the system enough fuel for how much air it is now capable of compressing.

A few questions for you:

Did you buy a genuine MHI (Mitsubish Heavy Industries) turbo or did you get a knockoff?

Do you have a manual boost controller to control your boost levels and are you certain it's hooked up properly?

Do you have a boost gauge?

Do you have a REAL wideband air/fuel ratio gauge?

Do you have a horsepower goal or a 1/4 mile goal? If so, what are they?

Answer those questions for me and visit this website: v3summary [ECMTuning - wiki]

It is the home of a program called ECMLink (V3). This program was previously called DSM Link and the two names are used interchangably on DSMTuners. The page that I linked you to contains an overview of the features that the program has. You'll need to read around on that website and then do a search on DSMTuners and find yourself an EPROM ECU which is necessary to run that program.

An intercooler upgrade is not absoutely necessary right now due to your lack of supporting modifications (no offense). But once you get on the right road you will definitely need to do an upgrade. My recommendation at this time is to pull off your side mount intercooler and clean it inside and out with gasoline and let it dry over night. They often accumulate oil and other things which make them in efficient. Once you put it back make sure you do it nice and tight and maybe even replace your couplers with new multi-ply ones and you get real t-bolt clamps to ensure that it is properly secured.

But answer those questions for me and do some research and you will soon be amazed at the power your turbo can make.

 

[Chicco]

Did you buy a genuine MHI (Mitsubish Heavy Industries) turbo or did you get a knockoff?
No, its an ebay turbo

Do you have a manual boost controller to control your boost levels and are you certain it's hooked up properly?
I have an MBC but it still not hooked up as my mechanic told me. if I will what is the allowable boost I can set with my setup?

Do you have a boost gauge?
yup I have an autometer (phantom). im boosting at 9 psi right now.

Do you have a REAL wideband air/fuel ratio gauge?
Dont have

Do you have a horsepower goal or a 1/4 mile goal? If so, what are they?
at least I can catch up with other modified cars in the streets. as you know here in dubai there are lots of rude peeps here.

 

[Joe Cool]

Did you buy a genuine MHI (Mitsubish Heavy Industries) turbo or did you get a knockoff?
No, its an ebay turbo

Alright, now you've obviously got it hooked up and running properly. If you are at a steady boost level that is good and it means that your wastegate is working properly. Now some people have had good luck with the eBay turbos and some have had bad luck. But as long as yours runs properly and no colored smoke is coming out of your exhaust then things are good and there is no concern.

Now to be honest, some people claim that a REAL MHI turbo is more efficent and flows better. This could be debated, but some things that are true are that they are usually lighter and they usually spool a little faster. But if you've been on the turbo for a few hundred miles then there should be no reliability concerns. You should be able to squeeze quite a bit of power out of that sucker if you were lucky and got a good one, which it looks like you did.

Do you have a manual boost controller to control your boost levels and are you certain it's hooked up properly?
I have an MBC but it still not hooked up as my mechanic told me. if I will what is the allowable boost I can set with my setup?

You can hook it up if you'd like but for now I'd leave it as it is and not hook it up. If you do want to hook it up you can, but I would turn the boost down all of the way to the 9 lbs that you're at now. The reason for this is still because your fuel injectors are only rated at 450cc's. Now while this may be more than enough for the only T25, it is not enough to feed the 16G. You WILL run into problems and you WILL damage your engine if you turn the boost up too high and there is not enough fuel being supplied to your engine. You will run in the "lean" condition and you will run a very hot engine, possibly melting and warping your head and blowing your head gasket or causing other problems.

Now that you know all of that, you can see why you'd want to leave it at 9 lbs for now.

Do you have a boost gauge?
yup I have an autometer (phantom). im boosting at 9 psi right now.

Excellent, any boost spikes or leaks?

Do you have a REAL wideband air/fuel ratio gauge?
Dont have

I'd recommend getting a real wideband (NOT a narrowband) from either AEM or Innovate Motorsports. The wideband will allow you to read your air/fuel ratio and will be essential for tuning your car once you get a tuning program such as ECMLink.

Do you have a horsepower goal or a 1/4 mile goal? If so, what are they?
at least I can catch up with other modified cars in the streets. as you know here in dubai there are lots of rude peeps here.

With fuel injectors, a wideband, and a tuning program you should be able to reach at least 300WHP, if not more, depending on how the eBay turbo holds up. But once you near the 300WHP point your car may be flowing through so much air that the intercooler will heat soak and become inefficent. At this point you may want to invest in a front mount intercooler which will be more efficient in cooling 300+ horses of air.


With your eBay turbo I would say it's safe that you'll be able to run mid to high 12's in the 1/4 mile. If you have bigger goals I would say to skip the MHI 16G and go with something like a 50 trim which is good for up to 450WHP and will probably blow the doors off all but the most serious cars in Dubai.

If you have any other questions or confusion feel free to ask. But this information should be good to get you rolling in the right direction. You'll be smoking those front tires and looking for solid motor mounts and a limited slip differential in no time.

 

[gieri002]

x2 on everything above, but the reason your car isn't feeling much faster is simply because the boost is so low, as soon as you save up some money for supporting mods you can crank the boost up after installing that mbc, and that's where you will see the major gains. 9 psi is nothing for a 16g and isn't even near that turbo's efficiency level. All your getting right now is a slower spool, but it will pull until redline which is a good start.

 

[gieri002]

Wow, your in Asia! I didn't even notice that, how's the eclipse scene there?

 

[reno23]

Wow, your in Asia! I didn't even notice that, how's the eclipse scene there?

I think he's in the United Arab Emirates(UAE), middle east, according to his profile. And as far as "eclipse scene,"? It practically doesn't exist here. At least not where i'm at. No one ever has a clue what i drive. It's cool to have something unique, but sucks when your looking for parts/upgrades, especially OEM. This forum is the reason why I'm able to maintain and modify my own ride. Without dsmtuners, i probably would have sold it and got a truck.

 

[Chicco]

Thanks Joe. ill do all of that in due time.

gieri : Reno is correct im leaving here in Dubai UAE. actually before it is very seldom to see eclipse here especially DSM. but nowadays you can now see it everywhere. and to tell you the truth arabs wants this model. idunno why. I love DSM so much that is why even in the philippines were i use to grow up I always dreaming to have 1.

Reno : same like you if not for my jordanian friend(rayban GST) who introduce this site I could have sold this.

In later time I know there would be UAEDSM club

Nway sorry guys for the Out of topic.

 

[habitatguy187]

Just turn your boost controller up until right before you hit fuel cut, figure out where that happens, and go from there, you don't have to have new fuel injectors if you're not going beyond the ECU regulated fuel cut feature. What happens is the ecu cuts the fuel once you reach a certain airflow to save your engine from running out of fuel, so you really have nothing to worry about until you do things to disable this fuel cut feature.

I figure you'll probably be able to run around 13-14psi, which will feel a whole lot faster than 9, check out these links below for good dsm info.

Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions

 

[mosul210]

x2 on everything above, but the reason your car isn't feeling much faster is simply because the boost is so low, as soon as you save up some money for supporting mods you can crank the boost up after installing that mbc, and that's where you will see the major gains. 9 psi is nothing for a 16g and isn't even near that turbo's efficiency level. All your getting right now is a slower spool, but it will pull until redline which is a good start.

I agree member JOE COOL did a great job at outlining the progression path. Also like gieri says in this quote, boost is where you will notice the power. My stock 14B was a totally different animal when I cranked up the boost from 10 to 15psi. You should be able to run 12-13psi safely on the 450's. I highly recommend a wideband O2 sensor so that you can get an accurate reading on your air/fuel mixture. All in all I think you're on the right track, good luck.

 

[Dert]

I would say hook up your MBC and turn the boost up to 12 or 13psi, the 450's will no doubt be able to handle it, you could probably turn it to 15 psi but to be safe untill you get a wideband keep it at 12-13, by the way. great post JOE COOL

 

[91TSIallday]

I would also look in the classifieds here! I bought some evo9 560's for $100 and ppl are always selling their AFC. I would say if your lucky you can find all the parts you need for about 200! Good luck! These 2 upgrades will help that 16g hit puberty!

 

[habitatguy187]

BTW a wideband isn't needed at this point, so don't worry about spending that money just yet. If you want to have some good safe fun just turn up your boost like I said and install a full 3in exhaust system, the gains you'll notice from that will be much more than getting fuel mods, gauges and a safc on the stock exhaust.

Also if you haven't you should do a boost leak test.

 

[91TSIallday]

you wont feel much of a gain without upgrading the fuel though. Yes a little gain with the exhaust but nothing to great like you would with bigger injectors.

 

[Chicco]

Thanks to all of you guys its been a great help. any guys coming here in uae just pm me so i can drive along with you.

 

[habitatguy187]

you wont feel much of a gain without upgrading the fuel though. Yes a little gain with the exhaust but nothing to great like you would with bigger injectors.

Remember he's going from a t-25 to a 16g, muuuuch more difference than going from a 14b to a 16g, even at that low of boost, most say that a 14b and 16g run about the same times until you take them over 16psi.

 

[91TSIallday]

ya i forgot that he wasnt at a 14b, but i still think the best idea would be to find some injectors on here for a good price put those in and away he goes boostin' good with nothing to really worry about, rather than the little 450's. I figured the 2.5 exhaust would be fine for now, i mean i ran low low 13's on my 1g with 550's, 2nd gen maf, afc, 2.5'', AFPR, and a wally. But i was on a 14b and that is a difference! +1

 

[tehehodi]

make sure you do all the maintenance first before modding! i dunno if that was mentioned. Keep on top of it to. do lots and lots of reading also, answers are all over this board. Tuning tools can include but not limited to, Wideband air/fuel gauge, dsmlink, eprom ecu, keydiver, safc, palm pilot to log, evo 8 ecu now. Theres a lot of things now days.

 

[Chicco]

Thanks tehehodi. actually ive done that already(change timing belt, plugs & wires, Hoses etc.) but i will do some BLT again. Honestly im just using my DSM only on weekends as I am using my company car. thanx a lot guys

 

[Mr PopUps]

Thanks tehehodi. actually ive done that already(change timing belt, plugs & wires, Hoses etc.) but i will do some BLT again. Honestly im just using my DSM only on weekends as I am using my company car. thanx a lot guys

What are the ambient temps there? Id say that a better IC WOULD do you some good. Heat soak is a boost killer.

Also to the guy who said minimal gains with an exhaust.... you can gain as much as 30hp JUST from running a test pipe vs a cat, plus as much as 50 JUST from going to a full 3" TB.

 

[91TSIallday]

ya i know how much you can gain from just upgrading the exhaust i didnt mean like 5hp gain, the point i was trying to make would be to find some good injectors first, not to just forget about the whole exhaust peroid.