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Intercooler question

Posted by Evolving_sti, May 1, 2019

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  1. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    DANBURY, Connecticut
    Heh guys I bought a 99 GST and I have a question about the intercooler. My car is bone stock with 31k miles. I wanted to do some basic boltons and a tune but the more I read the more I get weary about modding this thing (not looking for crank walk or clutch slippage).
    My question is I have an evo 8 that I've upgraded. My gst I bought the k&n air filter adapter and an hks catback. If my shop was to make custom intercooler piping that is the same diameter as the stock piping and we slapped my stock evo intercooler would the car require tuning? Just to make it clear power is no where near my goal with this car , I have a modded evo 8 and 2018 sti. But I would like some sound and style and to get rid of the side mount intercooler.
     
  2. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    If speaking strictly/ideally, Yes you should tune.
    But if speaking realistically, No need. The car would run good.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  2

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  3. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    I found alot of threads of people asking about the evo intercooler but none on the tuning side. The one thread I found someone stated it would work but on a stock t25 u will see more turbo lag
     
  4. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    That is what I said "if speaking strictly/ideally". Larger volume = more time to fill, that you can not avoid. but you can make it less with tuning. The lag wouldn't be that much even without tuning though.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  2

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  5. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Correct. Smaller turbo filling a larger volume is going to take a longer time to get on boost.
     

    Street Build 229  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    320  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 872  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    My opinion is, you would not be able to feel any difference with the EVO intercooler from the OEM side mount. When I was piecing together my upgrades I installed my large front mount with the T25 & don't remember being able to tell with DD. If you can data log & do before & after logs you may be able to see a difference in the logs though. The change in volume of the intercooler is so minuscule compared to the volume from a turbo, even a T25 is rated something like 330CFM which is like a small residential air conditioner. It's almost nothing & I feel the lags concerns are nitpicky.
     
  7. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    The evo 8 intercooler has been done before( ballin on a budget, budget front mount). I'm sure you could find it if you search.
    Id get rid of the t25, and get a fresh rebuilt 14b from jusmx141. You obviously know how to swap turbos and do j pipes and intercooler setups, so it shouldn't be to hard for you.

    Tune is really up to u, you could probably go a little more aggressive. But catback and better air filter, really doesnt require a tune.
     

    4K  18  14

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.300 @ 102.400 · 1G DSM
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  8. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    I had an Evo intercooler back in the day, it will work just fine.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  16

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    Honestly guys the reason I dont want to tune the car is because of alot of what i read as far as reliability. I've been searching and doing so much research on this site for the last couple of days. I've also been in contact with my mechanic as far as modding. We had a whole list of things we were gona do but then I look at the downside of this car. It is a 20 yr old car and I dont want the clutch to have to be replaced or this engine suffering from crank walk if we start pushing it. If I could run the air filter kit, catback, an evo 8 intercooler and a recirculating bov due to the rubber one potentially leaking without tuning I would be content.
     
  10. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    As an evo guy u know u can always squeeze out a little extra from the stock tune.But with those mods honestly u dont need to worry about a tune. Get your hard piping done, slap on a 1g Bov or evo Bov on the 2g flange, get the recirc piping and be done with it.
    Be happy and just drive the car, with minimal mods.
    :thumb:
     

    4K  18  14

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.300 @ 102.400 · 1G DSM
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  11. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    I went to my mechanics today and he talked me out of the hard pipe and IC. He just said without tune the MAF on these wont compensate and doesnt want the car to not run properly. So instead I purchased a go fast bits diverter valve, tien suspension , and a seibon OEM style Cf hood.
     
    Bud92gsx likes this.
  12. Esquire the Bold

    Esquire the Bold Probationary Member

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    I have a stock 98 TSi and I just put it back together after porting the O2 housing, a Hahn side mount intercooler and hard piping. There's no drivability issue whatsoever.

    You're more likely to have a drivability issue if you forget to recirculate your BOV.
     

    Street Build 392  3

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    It sounds like your machanic is not very familar with this platform or these cars & I think has given some inaccurate advise. The intercooler, hardpipes, recirc BOV, & exhaust are easily within the OEM CPU's compensation abilities. My opinion on the crankwalk is it is way over hyped. It could happen, but it can happen to any car & if it is going to happen it usually happens quickly within a few hundred miles. The OEM clutch can handle all the power a T25 can put out and then some. What ever your do, in the end, be happy.
     
  14. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    You will be fine with no tune. Your adding hardpiping, front mount, a k&n air filter and a cat back.
    Like said before, you might see a little lag with the t25 and front mount, but that's about it as far as drivability.
     

    4K  18  14

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.300 @ 102.400 · 1G DSM
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  15. stillrunning

    stillrunning Proven Member

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    brandon, Florida
    The IC change you're proposing isn't that dramatic that it would throw the tuning off at WOT much really.
    The ECM is very capable of adjusting the tuning during closed loop operation with O2 feedback so that wouldn't be an issue at all in your case.
    WOT/open loop you would probably be a little leaner than before but the factory tuning is way richer than needed unless you still run a cat in which case the rich tuning helps keep the cat from melting down.
    The intercooler would help you more than it would hurt you really by reducing knock from reduced intake charge temps.
    The hardpipes are really a non issue, may change the perception of boost coming on but nothing drastic either.
     

    Street Build 429  3

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  16. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    Given what you just said, would I have issues running a core like this? This seems like a pretty small unit or is the evo 8 stock intercooler a better choice given my mods. Or the ETS
    https://www.extremeturbosystems.com...m-7-street-intercooler?variant=14595862364230


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/EMUSA-Universal-Intercooler-27-x-7-x-2-5-2-5-INLET-AND-OUTLET/132113056247?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=56829&meid=d1703f3a14bf49d5aed6488790d7554c&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&mehot=pp&sd=132113056247&itm=132113056247&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:4ba8d3b6-6d74-11e9-b192-74dbd180e44b|parentrq:7c93412016a0ab6af1115c01fff6f854|iid:1
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  17. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Back in the day I had a car that would keep up with bolt-on LS1s, and I literally never tuned or did anything besides an afpr. Had full bolt-ons with a bigger turbo and cams. Never had any noticeable drivability issues either.
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  18. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    Against my mechanics wishes he ordered me the ets street front mount. He'll make custom piping to go with it. Hes gona connect a wideband to make sure the a/f are safe or else I'm gona have to get a tune on evoscan with ceddymods. Hope those are still obtainable. The setup will be:
    Hks catback, ets street fmic/custom piping , hks ssq recirculating bov, k&n air filter adapter. Keep you guys posted.
     
  19. stillrunning

    stillrunning Proven Member

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    It should be fine, drastically changing the actual air volume through the engine would have a more dramatic impact than the IC itself which is doing air density recovery.
    Cooler charger temps are safer under just about all circumstances.
    I run a TurboSmart dual port BOV without issue which utilizes the 1g bov flange and does open vent and recirculate. Just another great option if you are still running a MAF and really functions extremely well.
    Technically all cars can benefit from basic tuning, just calibrating the MAF so that delivered AFR matches commanded AFR very closely without messing with timing or anything else.
    Is it needed, not in all situations but really if it's within your means I would definitely opt to dial in the MAF so that commanded and actual AFR match up decently.
    Again, what you are doing is not drastic enough to "need" specific tuning but really all setups can benefit from some very basic tuning if at all possible.
    Anyways an IC & exhaust change is not enough to shake the foundation of reliability or tuning so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
     

    Street Build 429  3

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  20. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    I totally agree with what your saying. I have a 2018 sti, 2003 evo and 2009 civic si. All are tuned on evoscan, accessport, and flashpro. My concerns are I'm afraid of pushing this car to hard and honestly just want to enjoy it as is. The tuning options for this vehicle arent as simple as the adforementioned programs . Dsm link requires to get a whole nother ecu plus when I contacted ECM tuning there not so good at responding to emails, still waiting for a response. Also evoscan with ceddymods was what I would like to do but my tuner has never tuned a dsm on ceddymods only dsmlink. I sent him the link to ceddy.us and he told me it shouldn't be a problem but is ceddy still around? I would like to donate the $30 dollars for the big maps and speed density. I saw some threads where people donated but took awhile to get their maps and this was 2 yrs ago or so. Idk what the status of his site is. Would be nice if after u donate it just transfers u to a part of the website to download the files , but from what I read ceddy sends you the maps directly. I'm still very new to dsm's so bare with me if somethings I posted arent entirely accurate.
     
  21. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    You will be fine changing the intercooler and or piping, i did it on my T25 and i honestly felt not alot of difference in spool time etc, it was just a few hundread revs off but still felt great,

    The bigger issue i found out is air flow restriction to the radiator! It limited flow to the rad and fans and then i melted a fan because of the excess heat where as before it was fine because air was passing through the rad and cooling the fan blades,

    So other then that issue the swap is fine to do and works well with the stock turbo
     

    Road Race Build 8K  10  50

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  22. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    Interesting. Might have to add a mishimoto radiator then
     
  23. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Its not the rad thats the issue its the flow to the rad and fans, i have amishimoto rad and that side of things is ok, but the lack of air flow through the rad made my fan melt LOL. It is a weird one i must admit but makes sense as the added restriction from another item in front stops cooling the material of the fans a bit
     

    Road Race Build 8K  10  50

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  24. Evolving_sti

    Evolving_sti Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 28, 2019
    DANBURY, Connecticut
    Do u guys know what the air fuels are with an exhaust , the ets IC with hardpipes and an air filter with the adapter kit? Just give or take where they usually sit at on a stock map?
     
  25. stillrunning

    stillrunning Proven Member

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    brandon, Florida
    The stock afr map for a 2g at WOT is somewhere ~9.6 target, not sure where actual ends up with said mods in the real world though.
     

    Street Build 429  3

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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