Resolved installed 1g bov in 2g eclipse now have several issues

[TurboSpider]

OK I installed 1 Gen bov today on my 97 eclipse, I also install an aftermarket boost gauge. With the stock 2nd gen BOV installed the car would make 15 psi max. After installing the 1st generation BOV the car would go all the way up to 20 psi which is where the boost gauge maxes out. After installing the 1st gen



BOV the car has gained a lot more top and and power it drives almost like a new vehicle now. However, Once the car hits 20 psi it feels like the car hit a brick wall. Sometimes a backfiring type sound is heard from possibly in the intake. As far as I know the car has a stock boost controller and everything else besides the intake is stock. I recirculated the blow off valve using the same rubber hose that connected the second gen BOV. Everything seems to be tight as far as I can tell. Also I noticed when the car is revved up slightly or when pulling up to a stop sign and the rpms are dropping a high pitched whistling sound can be heard coming from the intake. I disconnected the rubber hose that recirculates the blow off valve to the air intake and just reved it slightly not much at all and it appears the whistling sound is coming from the blow off valve it's not the sound of the whoosh sound that it normally makes but a high pitched whistle that happens for about a second as the idle drops. If I let off the throttle before it gets to 20 psi and feather the throttle to keep it below 20 psi it doesn't cut out and it runs fine under normal driving conditions. It seems like the problem is it is developing too much boost is it experiencing fuel cut or something else what would cause it to be boosting up to 20 psi stock without a boost controller or anything like that.

 

[StanleyDSM]

Sounds kinda like the wastegate is stuck and fuel cut.

 

[TurboSpider]

How do I check the wastegate to see if it's stuck. Is the wastegate supposed to keep the boost down around 14 psi.

 

[TurboSpider]

Forgot to mention sometimes when accelerating the gauge goes to around 15, then it drops down a little and then shoots up to 20 and then the car jerks violently

 

[TurboSpider]

Just tried To move the wastegate rod by hand it won't move. Not sure if it should. There is a line that come off from the wategate, it runs to a T one end goes under the turbo or something turbo he other end of the time goes to I guess the stock boost controller which is under the he air filter

 

[StanleyDSM]

Yeah it should move if you put enough pressure on it. Sounds like you will need a new wastgate.

 

[TurboSpider]

Maybe I wasn't pulling on that rod hard enough. Which way should it move with rhetoric car off, towards the actuator or towards the drivers side. Maybe I can disconnect the linkage and see if it moves at all.

 

[StanleyDSM]

Towards the passenger side I believe.

 

[StanleyDSM]

Check this video out. This is how I check mine.

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[Maes]

So how much psi does it take to open it since you checked it that way?

 

[Mauispyder]

Put the stock 2g BOV back on to see if it normalizes. I wouldn't run more than 15psi without a way to deliver more fuel or at least log knock.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Whistle is normal for some 1g bov's, happens as the valve is closing. Check for a leak by doing a boost leak test. And I wouldn't push that boost thru a t25 to much or you could kill it. And are you sure your boost gauge is reading properly? Most stock 2g bov's leak at 14psi and make it impossible to run more than that since it leaks. So with the 1g your actually holding boost. You sure there isn't a mbc in the car? Do a boost leak test anytime you mess with the intake system!

 

[TurboSpider]

I went out this morning and kinda reved it while watching the wastegate actuator and I didn't see it move, however I didn't rev it high. Something I noticed about the car that I am not sure if all stock dsm's are like this or not but when you are sitting still, you really have to rev it to get it to build any boost, not sure if that is because there is no load on the engine or what. 1st gear the boost doesn't kick into till higher rpms. 2nd and all other gears it comes on earlier I am assuming because the engine is under a load. When doing a hard pull with the 1g BOV, the gauge typically goes around the 15 psi mark, jumps down a little and then if I continue to stay on it, it shoots up to closer to 20. If it gets to 20, the car jerks bad like I hit a wall. This typically seems to occur around 5-6K RPMS.

I assume the boost gauge is reading properly as it was going about midway between the 10 and 15 mark on the boost gauge with the stock BOV installed which is normal from what I have read. But when I put the 1st gen BOV in is when the car is able to get up to 20 psi.

If I follow the vacuum line coming off the wastegate, it leaves the wastegate, goes to a T fitting and heads I assume, over to the turbo as I can't see it. Haven't had a chance to check this line yet to see its condition or where it goes. The other end of the T fitting heads over towards where the the air filter is but below it and plugs into what I am assuming in the stock boost controller. This SBC appears to be mounted to the firewall as I couldn't move it to get a better look. It appears there is two nipples on it. One goes to the wastegate as described earlier and the other line appears to go to a fitting on my intake manifold. I hooked the 1g BOV up using the same vacuum line the 2nd gen was hooked up with. There is a hose that comes off the intake that makes the connection to the BOV. I guess I will have to mount a camera or something in the engine bay to record the wastegate rod as I drive to see if it moves as I read it is supposed to open around 11 psi and I am not sure I can get that much boost just sitting still reving it. Possibly I can disconnect the vacuum line from the stock boost controller and stick my air chuck in it and try and pump 15 psi in it and see if it mosts like the guy did in the video above.

I also plan on running a boost leak test when I get home. I tried running it before with the 2nd g BOV installed however it leaked like a sieve and wouldn't even allow me to pressurize the system to 5 psi using my compressor. It basically came out as fast as it went in.

Is it possible the wastegate does open like it should but then maybe shuts too early or something allowing it to overboost? Maybe that would explain why around 15 PSI , the gauge drops, then when the wastegate shuts instead of staying open, it allows it to build up too much pressure. Just a theory but I am new to turbos. I also will check all the vacuum lines going to the wastegate when I pressure test it to see if they hold pressure.

 

[TurboSpider]

Here is some videos of the boost gauge in action. The first video I start in 3rd gear low rpms and tramp it down. It builds boost to a little above 15 psi that (i assume) the wastegate opens as you see the pressure drop down some. I stay on the throttle and then all of a sudden it spikes up towards 20 where I let off.

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The 2nd video I start in 2nd gear around 3k rpms and just punch it and stay in it till it jerks, then I shift into 3rd and floor it and it does the same thing (needle jumps up to 20 or more psi and the car jerks

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The last video, instead of flooring it, I kinda just ease into the throttle, you see the needle go up around 14 psi and drop (i assume once the waste gate opens as I am staying on the throttle) Once the wastegate apparently opens, I tramp it and it shoots back up to 20+ psi before it fuel cuts or jerks really violetently.

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Before anyone says it, I am done pushing the car into the 20 psi range. I know I can damage something if I keep flooring it like that and pushing too much pressure. I only did it here to get these videos so you guys can actually see what it is doing. I plan on keeping the boost down by going easy on the throttle and shifting early, until I can get home and see if I can figure out what is going on. I will start by taking the linkage off the wastegate and see if I can move the flapper by hand. I assume it will as juding by the videos it must be opening it when I slowly build boost instead of flooring it. It seems maybe as if when there is too much pressure from flooring it in the turbo, it doesn't have enough vacuum or power to teh actuator to open it? Sound reasonable?

 

[Maes]

Videos all say private

 

[TurboSpider]

they should wok now

 

[PlanZero]

What kind of exhaust is on this car? Is the cat still there? Reason I ask is when I put a 3" catless exhaust on with the stock o2 housing I had similar problems . I put a tubular housing on and my boost creep stopped.

 

[TurboSpider]

thats a good question, i got it with some kind of aftermarket large fart can style muffler on it. I only had the car for a short while and haven't jacked it up to see if the custom exhaust goes all the way up the the cat or what. I am assuming it has a cat as the check engine light isn't on.

 

[TurboSpider]

I did find this old thread from 2010. Seems the guy was having the exact same problem as me. Seems like they never resolved it. http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-221208.html

 

[Maes]

Looks like you are getting some good boost creep. may want to port your o2 housing or you could always get a smaller exhaust You could bypass the bcs and run it straight to the wastgate actuator and see what it does

 

[TurboSpider]

I was reading about that. If I disconnect the hose coming from the sbc and leave it unhooked and then hook a hose from the turbo house to the actuator, it should regulate it around 9 psi, but then I am running less pressure than I probably was with the stock 2g bov. If I got a MBC and installed it and set it for like 14 psi, would that stop this problem

 

[PlanZero]

Just look under the car. You don't even have to jack it up. You will notice right away if the newer exhaust goes all the way up. If it does, and theres no cat, remove the upper heat shield on the exhaust manifold and see what 02 housing is there. No cat doesn't necessarily throw a CEL. Also don't confuse the resonator for a cat.

 

[gofer]

It look's like you've figured out WHY you're building more boost now after upgrading to a 1g bov, the plastic crap 2g bov opens at 15psi and was regulating boost.

Now to figure out why you're building more than 12psi on the stock t25/wastegate actuator (wga)...

To determine what's causing the problem, a stuck wga or boost creep, it's as easy as removing the wga arm off the flapper located on the side of the o2 housing. After you slide the arm off the flapper go for a drive and try to build boost, if it still hits 20psi+ it's boost creep and if it feels like you're driving a POS Honda not building any boost it's the wga that's causing the problem.

So pull this off, should just be a cotter pin and then it slips off the flapper's post, then go for a drive and let us know what happens...

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In my experience a t25 "creeping" to 20psi+ is pretty rare even with a huge exhaust. I have seen those t25 wga's seize up due to corrosion and it won't open/close the flapper, causing the car to build 20psi+. Guessing you'll probably find that the wga needs to be replaced but test it first, it only takes a few minutes to check.

 

[TurboSpider]

awesome, this is what I was looking for, I will report back after I get home with my findings

 

[PlanZero]

When I put my 3" catless exhaust on my boost creep was out of control and my gauge pegged at 20. This was on a stock t25. My WG was fine, and I put on a $50 tubular housing and the creep stopped. I agree with gofer, it is supposedly rare on a t25 but that was definitely the problem in my case. I put a MBC on before the 02 housing in an attempt to tame the boost, but it didn't help.
Of course, if you discover that the exhaust is only an aftermarket cat back or muffler, you can rule this out.