1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

2G Injectors 1 and 4 not firing

Posted by Koda, Oct 25, 2019

Please Support Feal Suspension
Please Support STM Tuned
  1. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    So funny story, my dsm is broke again right when I thought I fixed everything, I have a 1995 eclipse gsx and I recently had problems with what I thought was the ECU , I now realized that the tuned blackbox wasn’t working because two Injectors were not firing , but I also have a stock ECU and the car will run with the stock one in , but smokes from the exhaust and smells like raw gas. I found out injectors 1 and 4 weren’t working whenever I unplugged both of them at the same time and the car stayed running with no change in the idle at all. I unplugged injectors 2 and 3 and the car stalls due to the fuel being cut. I tested the fuel resistor box that is mounted on the fire wall and it read 7.1 ohms on all pins.PLEASE HELP, I have to drive it to storage before winter comes and with all the time I have into it I don’t want it to start rusting because I couldn’t get it there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  2. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    20191025_173533.jpg
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  3. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    2,196
    844
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Turn your key on, go outside and ground one side of your meter and set the meter for 12v dc range, then unplug each injector connector and one side on each connector should have 12v on it, report back.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  4. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    I tested the dcv on each Connector and I put the black prob on ground and tested All the connectors and every side Of each one had 13-14v
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    I got 7.1 ohms on each one of those pins on the fuel resistor box
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  6. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    I think you need to double check this using a different method. A noid light preferably (usually can rent from a parts store for free) or by using a stethoscope and spinning the cas with the power on but engine not running.

    This is confusing. Can you clarify this at all? Especially with the results you posted next:

     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  7. Cherry

    Cherry Proven Member

    198
    52
    Joined Jun 16, 2019
    Hull, Georgia
    It would be weird for the 2 outside to be clogged, but have you swapped the injectors around to see if it isnt the injectors that arent working? Like swapping 1&2 and 3&4. I would at least check it, if 1&4 cylinders continue not to work then you know its not the injectors.
     

    Street Build 305  3

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    P
    Yes sorry for the confusion the first time I tested the fuel resistor pins wrong the first time (had the plug upside down so I tested the wrong pins together, ignore the first test )the second test is correct , 7.1 ohms on the resistor box plug... and am I able to spin the cam angle sensor with the cams still on ? And what will I be listening for ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    I will swap them tommarrow and let you know what they do but I’m confident it is not the injectors that are clogged , I’m still gonna make sure but it was running fine , shut it down and it wouldn’t start back up right, smells like gas and backfires sometimes. It just doesn’t seem like it’s getting enough gas to start up with the tune, but it starts up without the tune , but the injectors don’t work , I’ll upload a video for further Insight
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  10. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania

    I’m able to unplug those two Injectors with no idle change at all, then unplug either of the two middle and it will stall...
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  11. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Do you have the stock 95 CAS or not? The 95-96 sensor was located under the intake cam sprocket. If you still are using that, you should just use the noid light.

    If you have swapped to a 1G sensor you can take it off the head and spin it and the injectors will click as they are triggered to fire. A stethoscope held on injectors 1 and 4 would tell you whether they were firing.

    How are you sure that the injectors are the problem? The cylinders in question share a waste spark ignition coil. Have you eliminated the possibility of the 1&4 ignition coil, both 1&4 plug wires and the signal to fire the 1&4 coil?
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  12. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    I replaced the power transistor and the coil pack but I guess I could try another one , maybe since I bought a used one it was bad , I did hold the plugs (with the spark plugs on) against a ground and test for spark and they all had spark , some was just weaker but I checked the gaps on all them and they were at 0.30 , even if I didn’t have spark I thought the injectors would still click at least or I’d hear them ,but tommarrow I’ll take the injectors out and swap them and the coil pack and maybe transistor and see if they are still now working and let you guys know , I appreciate all the help
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    I mean no offense, but please stop just swapping parts and randomly unplugging stuff. Download the factory service manual and we can help you use it to troubleshoot. Every time you swap a part you introduce another variable into the situation. There's at least a decent possibility that your problem is in a brittle wire that makes intermittent contact or a bad ground or some other problem that is giving you misleading results.

    The plug gap is 0.30? Would that be in millimeters or inches? Either way, if that's not a typo, then that needs changed.

    All we know at this point is that the engine is probably not firing on cylinders 1 and 4. That could be due to the injectors, but the simplest explanation is usually the right one.
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    Bleakley and BLACK'98DSM like this.
  14. Cherry

    Cherry Proven Member

    198
    52
    Joined Jun 16, 2019
    Hull, Georgia
    I was just saying if you swapped injectors, not to a new set but with different cylinders you can rule out faulty injectors. Just like what you do with RAM in a computer with certain issues and can either find the cause is a bad stick and that stick is causing a no boot in a certain DIMM slot, usually swapping sticks can tell you a lot and it takes no time to do it. If the problem follows to 2&3 then it would most likely be faulty injectors and it is just 3 12mm bolts to check it. It rules out a variable at least.

    It smelling like fuel though should be a sign that there is raw fuel not being ignited. It sounds like a spark problem because if the injectors werent firing but 2&3 are then I would think you shouldnt smell any fuel. Sounds like its getting fuel, but not spark or the spark isnt good enough. Could be too much fuel drowning the spark out.

    It could be a long laundry list of things.
     

    Street Build 305  3

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    Okay I won’t swap anything out guys And I mean 0.03 inches , and yeah it smells like raw gas so it definitely makes sense that they are working and it’s spark , I’ll download the manual and should I check for spark again ? Can I test the coil pack to find out if it’s good some way ? Or the transistor? And plug wires ? Is there anything else it could be other than those things and bad wires? I have a 1997 ecu and the plugs are in the order 3,2,1,4 on the coil pack and same with the 1998 ecu I have. That is the correct order right ?
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Bleakley

    Bleakley Proven Member

    334
    72
    Joined Jan 29, 2017
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    :thumb:


    Where’s that f***in emoji where it’s bowing down to someone’s greatness. We need a bow down emoji. Now.
     

    Street Build 1K  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    If anyone’s willing to help, I tested spark with an inline spark tester and it is a spark problem, cylinders 1 and 4 have no spark the injectors are working so that’s my mistake ( I tested them using a noid light). I tested the coil plug wires and the coil pack and I’m positive they are working, and the spark plugs are brand new so I know they work. What else could this be ? I read on another forum from a guy with the same problem that the cam angle sensor can cause problems so I tested it by starting it up with it unplugged and it still starts up and doesn’t spark on 1 and 4, I’m completely stumped :confused:
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Could be either the PTU, the connection between the ECU and the PTU, the connection between the ignition switch and the PTU, or the ECU.

    Let's check signal to the PTU first. Make sure there's continuity between ECU pin 10 and PTU pin 7. ECU harness connector:
    20191029_210252.jpg

    If that checks out, then you have to test the PTU. It's a PITA. You need a AA battery and have to check continuity between pins 3 and 8 of the PTU while the negative side of the AA is connected to pin 3 and the positive side is connected to pin 7. PTU connector:
    20191029_205816.jpg

    I'm assuming that you have a 2Ga ECU and have not swapped any pins at the ECU. Otherwise the pin numbers I gave you would be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  19. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    It had a 1998 blackbox in it with a tune, I didn’t put the ecu in, I bought it off of a guy in West Virginia who did this all when he owned it. When This problem first started the tach and speedometer also stopped working, I wasn’t sure if it was related or not but now I’m thinking that it might be. Just want a second opinion on that. Because I read the transistor send info to the tachometer and tell the coil pack when to fire
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  20. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Yep, definitely is related. That's the same issue we're hunting down. So it's probably in the wiring harness from the ECU.
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    I was trying to figure out which wires would be affecting it from the ecu but it’s so hard to track down these wires and grounds to see what’s causing it, and I know it’s not the timing because it was running fine, I shut it down, wouldn’t start back up, no CAS code coming up, I’m at a complete standstill , I’ve tested just about everything, and there has to be a wire on the transistor that controls when the coil pack fires and the tach that I maybe messed up taking the intake manifold off but the whole wiring harness has a plastic cover over it so I don’t think it could have got sliced or cut , it has to be a connection
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  22. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    Is the
    Is there a way to test, to see if the ecu is sending a signal to the PTU for cylinders 1 and 4 to fire ? I think pin 7 & 8 are for cylinders 1 and 4
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  23. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,905
    151
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Here's the diagram for the other coil's signal from the PTU in case your car was set up for the 98 ECU:
    20191030_071916.jpg
    And here's the circuit diagram for the whole system:
    20191030_072139.jpg
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  24. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    Is the
    Sorry I’m bad with wiring can you explain the diagram to me somewhat,and what I can replace to fix it all or how to trace the wires physically to tell if they came disconnected from somewhere or are damaged ? Like where they connect to start and go through the firewall, if you know and I’ll try to find the colors of them and hunt them down and trace them
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  25. Koda

    Koda Proven Member

    45
    4
    Joined Jun 2, 2019
    Butler, Pennsylvania
    Terminals 2 on cps and 1 on the cas both read 0.01v but the other terminals are within spec, both have a black wire coming out of the back into the harness
     

    Street Build 240  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RixRacing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory