Important: Improvements on Saturn Alternator Swap

[talondsp1]

I must be doing something wrong or using not so good wires! when i start the car it goes up to 14.1 then drops all the way down to 13.0. It stays between 12.8 to 13.1 and I have the sense wire going to where the battery, starter, fuse box, and alt cables go!

Where are you reading the voltage from? Is your volt gauge wired inside the car? If so, I would try running the sense wire to the same point that your gauge is wired to. see if that changes it at all.

 

[knochgoon24]

That's for the part number!

This alternator should be going on my car pretty soon. Maybe even later this week.

 

[seminoles2005]

Does the "L" wire on the saturn alternator plug have to have between 35-350 ohms or resistance to turn the alternator on correctly? How would you go about testing to see if you are having enough?

I put my volt meter in the wire and put the key to the on position but it still read 0 ohms but for some reason it had 11 volts to it. This was with the car off though and i think my battery is getting weak because its not getting a charge. It also reads around 8 ohms with the key out of ignition but as soon as i turn the key to crank the car or turn to just the on position it goes to 0 ohms on my meter.

 

[knochgoon24]

I'm in the middle of the swap right now.... finally.

I'm running into a small problem. I noticed that most of you are no longer running the stock water/oil cooler. I'm finding that I'm hitting this. I don't have enough pivot in the alternator to get the belt tight. I think I can grind another spot down and get it to fit, but it's something I thought I should mention.

Pictures to come soon.

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EDIT:
Here are the pictures.
Saturn Alternator Swap onto a 7-bolt. The few problems...

You may not have enough space to fully tighten the belt. The alternator hits the oil cooler here.

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The problem spot.

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Problem fixed thanks to bench grinder.

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While you don't have to really do much to do the "Grind B to match A" thing, there is this little square chunk. Without grinding this down, you only very limited pivoting motion, even with the other side of the alternator ground down to clear the oil cooler better.

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Just grind about half of it off.

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And it fits.

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Now I just need to get it all wired in.


Oh, and I had to tear my alternator completely apart. There's a stupid nut on the inside of the positive terminal. That came loose on mine and the positive post fell off. To get this nut back on, you basically have to tear the whole alternator apart like you're going to rebuild it.
So, if anyone has any questions on how to get one apart to rebuild it, PM me. It's not too difficult.

 

[kicker91laser]

Do you have enough slack to go with a slightly shorter belt?

 

[knochgoon24]

I think it would be best for me to go with a belt that was a half inch shorter. As of right now, when I snugged the belt up to proper tension, the alternator just hits the oil cooler. I have enough play in the other direction to fit a belt at least half an inch shorter. I might even be able to get away with a full inch shorter, but it might be tight getting it on.

For now, I just hooked the S wire up with all my other accessory wires, right to the positive terminal on the battery. I don't think that spot is working too well, because my voltage can drop a good bit (I've seen 10.1v) before slowly climbing back up to 13.8v. I'm going to try moving it to the fuse box where my headlights connect to their fuse. Then I can visually see the voltage drop that the wire is seeing, and go from there.

I have:
4 ga wire from alt to alt spot in fuse box
two 8 ga wires from ground bolt on alt to engine block (Just a piece of the old doubled 8ga wires. I ran out of 4ga.)
16ga wire for the S wire
stock black/yellow wire connected to L

That's it.

I need to get a proper distribution block too, but I just haven't seen any at a local store that I'm satisfied with. All the car audio ones have those huge fuses in them. I just want one with a 4ga in, a 4 ga out and a few 8ga outs. If it had 10ga outs, it would be better, because that's what my fuel pump rewire and my AC/DC converter are both wired in with, but I haven't seen any like that. I could always just put some solder on the tips of the 10ga wires to make them a snug better in the 8ga size holes.

EDIT:
I moved the S wire to the bolt at the end of the middle row of fuses. I'm still getting results similar to what I had before. Nothing impressive. Actually it's just as bad, if not worse than the stock alternator.
It doesn't seem to be able to continuously output enough power to run the A/C and both cooling fans with the headlights on. At idle, the voltage actually dropped as low as 9.3v with A/C, rear defroster, brakes, and both cooling fans running.

The weird part is that when I slowly revved the engine from idle, the A/T Temp, battery, and oil pressure lights all came on, even though the voltage was now rising (about 10.1v). They only lit during a certain rpm range. Right around 1800-2200rpm.

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You can see what happens every time my cooling fans kicked in.

Can you overwork an alternator and have it drop it's output? It got worse the more I let the car idle. 850 rpm.

I did pull my alternator from a junkyard for $30.

 

[squeak104]

I just picked up my alternator today from Advance Auto for this swap. This paper came with it so I figured I'd share with everyone. It has wiring diagrams and basically backs up everything Glenn has said. It makes it a little easier for those like me who are buying a new alternator and a new plug in that don't have the terminals marked. Enjoy.

If you'd like a larger version I have it full size and can email it to you. Photobucket is not agreeing with me. Just PM me if you'd like it.

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[KGB Pilot125]

One other thing I noticed is that my saturn alt. which is a Delco reman from NAPA has the plug in labeled
P L F S
as opposed to this

http://www.6bolt.com/Pics/sat_alt.pdf

which is
S P F L

I dont know if this will make a difference

****EDIT****

Got it all figured out now it took some searching but I have a NAPA pigtail that will work

P/N EC268

and the alternator I picked up is a RAY 2134591its a reman Delco with a lifetime warranty

 

[talondsp1]

For those wanting to run a smaller pulley, to run the alternator faster and get more amps at idle. You can order a alternator from motor city reman, and ask them for a slightly smaller pulley, and they will put one on it for free.

I am sure if you ask them, they will sell you just the pulley if you already have an alternator. I recently ordered a 160 amp, and asked for a slightly smaller pulley, and they said no problem. put it on for free.

here is where you can get them. 91-97 SC/SL Series 1.9L

here is a picture of the standard size pulley, and the smaller one.

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This should make it even better at idle. I will post back when I find out.

 

[knochgoon24]

Get some measurements on the pulley size. I'm curious just how much it will be overdriven now.

Go figure. I got tired of the poor voltage at idle and just picked up a 140amp reman from the classifides just yesterday.

 

[awdwhip]

For those wanting to run a smaller pulley, to run the alternator faster and get more amps at idle. You can order a alternator from motor city reman, and ask them for a slightly smaller pulley, and they will put one on it for free.

I am sure if you ask them, they will sell you just the pulley if you already have an alternator. I recently ordered a 160 amp, and asked for a slightly smaller pulley, and they said no problem. put it on for free.

here is where you can get them. 91-97 SC/SL Series 1.9L

This should make it even better at idle. I will post back when I find out.

That alt you got is pretty pricey though. There has to be an alternative.

 

[alwesterholm]

I am considering this swap but need to know if these alternators are larger in length than the stock ones. The stock alternator measure 4 inches to its rear, left of the mounting bracket. I dont have room to spare with my downpipe coming off my GT35r. Anything 4 inches or smaller gives me the green light to for this swap. I would relocate the the alternator but I am not giving up my A/C.

 

[knochgoon24]

Well, I ditched my Saturn alternator. I never did get it to keep the lights from dimming. It also didn't like the 750rpm idle with lights, fogs, defroster, etc on in the winter.

I picked up a used 140amp reman'd 1g alt instead.

I'll see if I can get some measurements on the Saturn alt to post. I have the stock 2g still sitting around too.

 

[black_gst]

I think it would be best for me to go with a belt that was a half inch shorter. As of right now, when I snugged the belt up to proper tension, the alternator just hits the oil cooler. I have enough play in the other direction to fit a belt at least half an inch shorter. I might even be able to get away with a full inch shorter, but it might be tight getting it on.

For now, I just hooked the S wire up with all my other accessory wires, right to the positive terminal on the battery. I don't think that spot is working too well, because my voltage can drop a good bit (I've seen 10.1v) before slowly climbing back up to 13.8v. I'm going to try moving it to the fuse box where my headlights connect to their fuse. Then I can visually see the voltage drop that the wire is seeing, and go from there.

I have:
4 ga wire from alt to alt spot in fuse box
two 8 ga wires from ground bolt on alt to engine block (Just a piece of the old doubled 8ga wires. I ran out of 4ga.)
16ga wire for the S wire
stock black/yellow wire connected to L

That's it.

I need to get a proper distribution block too, but I just haven't seen any at a local store that I'm satisfied with. All the car audio ones have those huge fuses in them. I just want one with a 4ga in, a 4 ga out and a few 8ga outs. If it had 10ga outs, it would be better, because that's what my fuel pump rewire and my AC/DC converter are both wired in with, but I haven't seen any like that. I could always just put some solder on the tips of the 10ga wires to make them a snug better in the 8ga size holes.

EDIT:
I moved the S wire to the bolt at the end of the middle row of fuses. I'm still getting results similar to what I had before. Nothing impressive. Actually it's just as bad, if not worse than the stock alternator.
It doesn't seem to be able to continuously output enough power to run the A/C and both cooling fans with the headlights on. At idle, the voltage actually dropped as low as 9.3v with A/C, rear defroster, brakes, and both cooling fans running.

The weird part is that when I slowly revved the engine from idle, the A/T Temp, battery, and oil pressure lights all came on, even though the voltage was now rising (about 10.1v). They only lit during a certain rpm range. Right around 1800-2200rpm.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You can see what happens every time my cooling fans kicked in.

Can you overwork an alternator and have it drop it's output? It got worse the more I let the car idle. 850 rpm.

I did pull my alternator from a junkyard for $30.

Interesting that your are having so much trouble. i bought mine local from a high output starters and alt shop that specializes in custom stuff. they built me a 150 amp unit and put a 2.25" pully and i was having some voltage drop at around 900 rpms but only with the lights on. so i went by there and they checked the car out and gave me a 2" pully and said that it would be fine i havent gotten around to swaping the new pully but im sure that will fix it

 

[ed_dogg23]

Well I just placed my order for the smaller pulley 160 amp. Thank you for providing the link. I am wondering though. Have you not installed this on your ride yet? I guess Ill let ya know how it works if not. Thanks again.

For those wanting to run a smaller pulley, to run the alternator faster and get more amps at idle. You can order a alternator from motor city reman, and ask them for a slightly smaller pulley, and they will put one on it for free.

I am sure if you ask them, they will sell you just the pulley if you already have an alternator. I recently ordered a 160 amp, and asked for a slightly smaller pulley, and they said no problem. put it on for free.

here is where you can get them. 91-97 SC/SL Series 1.9L

here is a picture of the standard size pulley, and the smaller one.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This should make it even better at idle. I will post back when I find out.

 

[talondsp1]

I have it on the car, but I am still waiting on some more things to come in for the new setup, so I have not tested the new pulley. Let me know how your works out.

 

[turboglenn]

For all of those having "idle voltage issues" it's all in the pulley and our idle speed... the pulley is too large to spin at the speed it's designed too (our setup is just "geared" differently in the pulley system than the saturn)

At night when i have to worry about volts at idle i just kick the idle up to 1200 and i get right back to 13.6 with everything on, the only thing that seems to still effect it some what is having the AC on but i think i might have a loose belt right now from a recent teardown to work on some things as this JUST started after the teardown

That small pulley is the real key< i turned some on the lathe from Aluminum but never pulled the alt back off to see how it was keyed and the ID to finish them off because it was around the same time i left my ex and there was just oo much on my plate to worry about alt pulleys at the time, but now i'm just going to buy that one

 

[silentscreamer]

Has anybody figured out the p1500 CEL that you get from this mod, i read on another thread that the two remaning wires should be grounded to avoid the p1500, is this true. i want to confirm this before grounding out inputs to the ecu and causing a short in the ecu.

 

[nicknorth11]

Looking at the alternator from motorcityreman.com, posted by talondsp, is the "special SE 1 wire Voltage Regulator" really needed? Why?

**EDIT**

Yes, the regulator is needed. Without it, the alternator is not self-regulating. Also, I was told the pulley that they recommend for our cars is the smaller 1.9" pulley (stock saturn is 2.5", stock mitsu is either 2.25" or 2.5"). The 1.9" pulley also has 6 ribs, which I was told will work fine with our cars. (They don't offer a 4 or 5 rib pulley in the smaller size). If you want to purchase the pulley w/o an alternator, it'll cost $15 plus shipping. I was also told you will not need to purchase a harness with this alternator because they've done something to it that makes it unnecessary. The guy said the only thing that was needed is to run a single 4 gauge wire from the alternator to the battery. Can anyone with more knowledge on the subject please chime in and let us know what you think about this proposed wiring setup?

 

[talondsp1]

Yes it is better to use the smaller puller. It is 6 rib, but I put my belt in the middle.(so there is a rib on each side) and it Lines up perfect.

But they are just ripping you off by charging you that much for the "special regulator" because it is just a self exciting regulator. They charge 15 bucks extra for the self exciting regulator if you ask for it. \

They just found out that we are using these on our Mitsubishi's, and decided to charge 60 bucks for it. They just figured out a way to get more money out of us.

There is nothing wrong with the self exciting regulator, it is a good option and it does make wiring easier because all you have to do is hook up the 4 gauge charging wire as you mentioned. But I would not tell them it is for a mitsubishi, and order it that way. Otherwise you will be paying a lot more for the same thing.

You can just get the alternator with the smaller pulley, and wire it up as mentioned in this thread(or in other threads) and it will work fine. It is really up to you on how you do it. The funny thing is that i have sent them 3 emails in the last week asking if the special regulator is the same as the self exciting regualtor, and they have not answered me back. HAHA




Oh, and this self exciting regulator and wiring setup is nothing new. A lot of people have already done it. It has also been discussed on other threads. This thread was intended on showing you how to wire up the regulator so you could get the full use out of the alternator. If you do this combined with the smaller pulley, it will work great.

Looking at the alternator from motorcityreman.com, posted by talondsp, is the "special SE 1 wire Voltage Regulator" really needed? Why?

**EDIT**

Yes, the regulator is needed. Without it, the alternator is not self-regulating. Also, I was told the pulley that they recommend for our cars is the smaller 1.9" pulley (stock saturn is 2.5", stock mitsu is either 2.25" or 2.5"). The 1.9" pulley also has 6 ribs, which I was told will work fine with our cars. (They don't offer a 4 or 5 rib pulley in the smaller size). If you want to purchase the pulley w/o an alternator, it'll cost $15 plus shipping. I was also told you will not need to purchase a harness with this alternator because they've done something to it that makes it unnecessary. The guy said the only thing that was needed is to run a single 4 gauge wire from the alternator to the battery. Can anyone with more knowledge on the subject please chime in and let us know what you think about this proposed wiring setup?

 

[Blurred Talon]

So do you need a regulator or no when ordering from Motor City Reman?

 

[talondsp1]

So do you need a regulator or no when ordering from Motor City Reman?

It comes with a regulator, you just have to hook up a wire or two. Or you can order it with a self exciting regulator and you will only have to hook up the charge wire to the nut on the side.


If you order their "special regulator" you will just be
paying 60 bucks for the self exciting regulator instead of 15. Did you not read the post before yours?

 

[Blurred Talon]

I did, I was just a bit confused after reading it. Just wanted to clarify, thanks.

 

[talondsp1]

No problem. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[giovanniv]

Hey is there any way that we can get a diagram of how to wire things up for a 2g? I read over everything and I am not very confident with my wiring and don't feel like burning anything up.