im running rich and i cant find out why!

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

So im fed up as i just got done with my timing belt fired it up and and re calibrated my wideband (lc-1) and at idle im ok 14.5-14.7 but when i cruise im at 12.5 sometimes a bit lower and WOT im about 9.8-10.3 and ive done 2 boost leak tests and found nothing, all the o2 sensors are just over 1 year old and the thermostat is about 1.5 years old and its had 3 coolant flushes in about 2 years, i thought it could be the CAS trigger cap thing inside the cover but ive been told its not that.

So what else can i look for or do to get this corrected as im getting bad milage and it was not like this before the change of the belts! Should i look at a rad cap or ingition wires? Would any of these cause issues of running rich???

Someone please give me a list of everything i should check and i will check them all again if i have to or read power or volts or anything to get it running how it was! Also im pretty sure its not the o2 as im not loosing any power and ive read thats a symptom,

PLEASE HELP ME i really dont know what to do or check next

 

[BogusSVO]

On some ECUs, the coolant temp sensor, when it fails, tells the RCU that it is -40*, when that happens you run rich.

If this is true on the DSM ECUs, I do not know.

But if everything else checks out, you may want to look into it.

 

[curt-s]

Have you checked the wiring to your O2 sensor? The most common bend points, including that right at the connector, are known to give up after a while.

If you're talking about horsepower, generally when you're testing that, you're in open loop anyway so the O2 sensor isn't taken into account. Cruise, however, it does (unless it's locking you in open loop).
Have you logged your MAF cycles and compared them against other people with the same general mods? It may be reading lower than it should, causing the ECU to believe there is less air in there than there is.
Also check your fuel trims; is it pulling fuel or adding it?

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

Your logger is your greatest asset in this situation, check all values for anything that doesn't look right. It could be a failed knock sensor, which IIRC will register as a consistent 7 counts to the ECU. Check to see if the "black goo" in the back of the KS is oozing at all, if so it's time to replace it. I would also check your TPS readings, being out of adjustment can really mess with things.
EDIT: It couldn't hurt to double check your timing also, being off one tooth could cause other issues leading to running rich.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Have you checked the wiring to your O2 sensor? The most common bend points, including that right at the connector, are known to give up after a while.

If you're talking about horsepower, generally when you're testing that, you're in open loop anyway so the O2 sensor isn't taken into account. Cruise, however, it does (unless it's locking you in open loop).
Have you logged your MAF cycles and compared them against other people with the same general mods? It may be reading lower than it should, causing the ECU to believe there is less air in there than there is.
Also check your fuel trims; is it pulling fuel or adding it?

Ive not checked the wires yet and thats part of my plan over the weekend and read the o2 to see of it is still working. On the maf i dont know, i have the innovate ot2 logger and im still new at logging amd dont know 100% how to use it to its full potential and plus its all numbers to me and i really dont know what im looking for haha, and on the fuel im pretty sure its adding it as i did 50 miles on 1/4 of a tank and its never done that before

Your logger is your greatest asset in this situation, check all values for anything that doesn't look right. It could be a failed knock sensor, which IIRC will register as a consistent 7 counts to the ECU. Check to see if the "black goo" in the back of the KS is oozing at all, if so it's time to replace it. I would also check your TPS readings, being out of adjustment can really mess with things.
EDIT: It couldn't hurt to double check your timing also, being off one tooth could cause other issues leading to running rich.

I have a logger but i just dont know how to fully use it and what to check for! And i dont knowwhats weird when i look at some of them!

Mine does not show knock on the logger and when you say KC do you mean crank sensor? As i did undo 1 bolt for the balance belt but seemed ok and was replaced. TPS is good and it reads fine and timing was the first thing i thought about but will check again just to make sire but everything seemed fine last time i checked.

 

[t56speed]

Sounds like to me its o2 problem then agian. It could also be the ecu like BogusSvo said. Id def get friendly with your logger and look at your values and counts. Make sure your maf is plugged in good. Just go over everything you took apart one more time. Also check for an exhaust leak if its pushing air on to the o2 then the ecu will say your running lean and add fuel to fix it. Also do you have and cels?

 

[miguelmcv]

I used to run rich only when boosting and when cruising was OK, It end up being the FPR, It was leaking and allowing fuel to go into the manifold by the vacuum line.

Check your FPR, it might be bad.

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

Sorry, KS = knock sensor. If the logger doesn't read knock I would definitely give the sensor a visual check (and probably find a different logger, knock is one of the most important things to be able to log).

 

[t56speed]

also could be the KS. I forgot about that. I had one go out before an the car ran like total ass.
Ran really rich an had 0 power

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

also could be the KS. I forgot about that. I had one go out before an the car ran like total ass.
Ran really rich an had 0 power

I have lots of power and it does not jump hesitate or anything like that so im sure thats good

Sorry, KS = knock sensor. If the logger doesn't read knock I would definitely give the sensor a visual check (and probably find a different logger, knock is one of the most important things to be able to log).

I will shoot off and email to innovate to see if they do have it on there some where on the ot2, what am i looking for when looking at it?

I do want link but i thought the ot2 would he good enough as it was expensive and i got it almost when it was released plus it links my gauges together so i thought that was good for logging etc

Sounds like to me its o2 problem then agian. It could also be the ecu like BogusSvo said. Id def get friendly with your logger and look at your values and counts. Make sure your maf is plugged in good. Just go over everything you took apart one more time. Also check for an exhaust leak if its pushing air on to the o2 then the ecu will say your running lean and add fuel to fix it. Also do you have and cels?

Maf was plugged in and checked but im going to test another maf just incase it is this and the same with the o2 sensor i am going to try another that i know has not gone! Reguarding the leaks in exhaust i did replace my housing with a punishment racing unit but i was told it would run lean if it had a leak as its pushing air out and not drawing air in? I am going to check it again some how anyway and try putting a smoke stick up the back of it to test it as the flange might not of been flat!

I want to learn my logger well but i just dont know what to start with or what it all means so i will have alot to read up on then

Also i forgot to say i did get a CEL code and it was p0175 fuel trim it did not say anything about any bank or anything like that and it was a stored code so it must uave flashed on then off again very fast, i currently uave not CEL on when driving! Also before i did all tue work my type s bov was capped and now if i cap it it idles at 11.5 and if i uncap it the wideband reads 13.8-14.7 so im also confused on what that could be aswell as it was running very good before.

So at the weekend im going to check these items

Maf
O2 sensor
CAS
knock sensor
FPR

If anyone has anything else then let me know but there the checks im going to do on sat and i will then report back once ive done them with the results

On some ECUs, the coolant temp sensor, when it fails, tells the RCU that it is -40*, when that happens you run rich.

If this is true on the DSM ECUs, I do not know.

But if everything else checks out, you may want to look into it.

Do i check this via the logger or is there also away to test the connection with power volts or ohms?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

so today i checked everything out and did 2 more boost leak tests and everything seemed fine! i tested the maf and installed another and it made no difference then i checked the o2 sensor and it reads fine then we as me and my friend came over to help! then we did a compression test to see if timing was a problem and it was fine same as before and it was around 193-195 across the board.

now i cleaned the throttle body the other day to see if that was the problem of the rich but im not sure it was and now my idle rises when i go for a drive then i park back up it goes to about 1320rpm then dips but i tested the isc and the resistance and they all measured 33 ohms so i dont know what else to do and i now think the ISC is on its way out?

its still running rich but i have checked everything and its all reading fine all sensors are working?? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[miguelmcv]

Have you check your Fuel Pressure Regulator?.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I checked for leaks but i dont know how to test it? Thing is the car drives nice and does not do anything out of the normal apart from run rich and i dont see how doing the timing belt would mean i have to check everything? So i really doubt the fpr is the problem but i will google how to test it, i think its something to do with the o2 housing but untill i get a sniff test done i wont know.

 

[t56speed]

Also did you visually check the knock sensor??

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Knock sensor looks good, im thinking the car is naturally ment to run rich and i was depriving it of the power and running conditions as i capped the lower nipple of the bov, but i now think the isc either needs adjusting or its on its way out

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

Knock sensor looks good, im thinking the car is naturally ment to run rich and i was depriving it of the power and running conditions as i capped the lower nipple of the bov, but i now think the isc either needs adjusting or its on its way out

I was going to ask what kind of cruise conditions you were seeing 12:1. If it's on the freeway/over 3000rpms or so, that sounds about right if you're giving it just enough throttle to switch to open loop. WOT ratios are about right for the stock fuel tables. When you see the 12:1 cruising AFR, about how much vacuum does your gauge show?

 

[WES_393]

so today i checked everything out and did 2 more boost leak tests and everything seemed fine! i tested the maf and installed another and it made no difference then i checked the o2 sensor and it reads fine then we as me and my friend came over to help! then we did a compression test to see if timing was a problem and it was fine same as before and it was around 193-195 across the board.

How did you test the O2 sensor? Does your logger show O2 sensor voltage? If so, make sure the voltage oscillates between .2-.8v. But around 9.8-10.3 isn't terribly rich for a bone stock car, the stock tune really dumps fuel. With stock boost and injectors along with no known boost leaks I was seeing low-mid 10's under boost.

now i cleaned the throttle body the other day to see if that was the problem of the rich but im not sure it was and now my idle rises when i go for a drive then i park back up it goes to about 1320rpm then dips but i tested the isc and the resistance and they all measured 33 ohms so i dont know what else to do and i now think the ISC is on its way out?

Did you replace the gaskets after cleaning the throttle body? This is more than likely a vacuum leak causing idle surge. Replace the gaskets and check for other boost leaks in that area with soapy water. If that doesn't help follow the idle surge FAQ: Terry's Talon Troubleshooting Tips #3 - Fast Idle (aka. Idle Surge)

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I was going to ask what kind of cruise conditions you were seeing 12:1. If it's on the freeway/over 3000rpms or so, that sounds about right if you're giving it just enough throttle to switch to open loop. WOT ratios are about right for the stock fuel tables. When you see the 12:1 cruising AFR, about how much vacuum does your gauge show?

Well the stock gauge shows at 20% throttle the lowest dot on the boost gauge as ive not hooked the innovate unit just yet. I just think it weird how it was running at 14.6 before i did thes work and now it runs richer when running! But it all checks out so once ive exhausted all options i will iust leave it as it is

How did you test the O2 sensor? Does your logger show O2 sensor voltage? If so, make sure the voltage oscillates between .2-.8v. But around 9.8-10.3 isn't terribly rich for a bone stock car, the stock tune really dumps fuel. With stock boost and injectors along with no known boost leaks I was seeing low-mid 10's under boost.

We tested it via a link i found and it seemed to drop off and the tests seemed good as we used a multi meter and the blue output wire and in tue logger it opens then closes when we drive so according to the voltage readings its working correctly


Did you replace the gaskets after cleaning the throttle body? This is more than likely a vacuum leak causing idle surge. Replace the gaskets and check for other boost leaks in that area with soapy water. If that doesn't help follow the idle surge FAQ: Terry's Talon Troubleshooting Tips #3 - Fast Idle (aka. Idle Surge)

I did not no, they looked tood and we tested it with wd40 to see if the idle changed and everything was tight and we saw and heard nothing but i will replace them anyway if you think i need to then i shall reset the isc and biss screw just incase it needs doing. Only problem is i dont have link or ascan tool to ground the wire but i read that there is a grounding section behind tue battery so i will use this, there is a write up on it some where on here. Ive read through that link and will do all that once ive changed some items and done the bits you said to do

 

[WES_393]

No need to reset the ISC and BISS since it idled fine before removing the throttle body. Sealing up the vacuum leaks will allow the ISC to do it's job.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

No need to reset the ISC and BISS since it idled fine before removing the throttle body. Sealing up the vacuum leaks will allow the ISC to do it's job.

Ok i will re do the gaskets on the TB and go from there then thanks for the help

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Gaskets are being orderd this week but i have a concern that i think was over looked and mis-understood about my A/F ratios.

I have been read that on a cruise my target a/f should be about 14.6 or as close to it as possible but mine are 12.5 from 5-35% throttle and around that area and it only sits at 14.6 when im at idle so im running rich when i should not be now i dont think its these gaskets as ive had them off before and its not been a problem so if i post up a log maybe someone will see something i dont know as im still new to logging and readings etc etc but im sure my o2 sensors are ok.

So once again i need a little guidance haha

Bobby

 

[kimper007]

I have a 90 with the same problem, I talked to one of the archer brothers tonight and the first thing they said is start the car and pull the vacuum hose off the fuel pressure regulator and see if any fuel comes out if it does your regulator is shot. I haven't tried it yet but I will tomorrow and post a update.

 

[Paul@RTM]

On some ECUs, the coolant temp sensor, when it fails, tells the RCU that it is -40*, when that happens you run rich.

If this is true on the DSM ECUs, I do not know.

Yes, this is true. I've seen lots of failed CTS's give readings at LEAST that cold, sometimes more like -50 degrees. But a failed CTS almost ALWAYS give a really cold reading.

 

[arabeclipse]

Are you sure there's no leaks at your throttle body shafts? Check again and look carefully. It took me after 4 or 5 BLT's to see it and I had the same problem as you.

 

[buhay6]

I'd say it's something to do with the fuel system, my bet lays with the fpr or the cts.
The cold start solenoid went on my supra a little while ago and it causes it to barely start and when it does start it runs pig rich all the time. Do you had trouble getting it to cold start?