Ignition Problem

[radevski]

I have a 1g with 50k miles. The car has a wideband and boost gauge wired into the interior fuse box through and auxilary fuse which feeds power when the key is turned to the on position. The car also has a clutch cut wired into the cruise switch for DSMlink. Other than those few electrical modifications, the car is stock. The other day, i drove the car to work, went to get back in to leave, and the car wouldn't turn over. I assumed that maybe the starter went bad. I tested it and it passed. For trial and error, i installed a new starter and it did the same thing. When i turn the key over, the car makes a click like all the relays are working properly, but the car doesnt turn over. I then ran direct power from the battery to the starter curcuit wire, and the car turned over. I tested the signal coming from the starter relay to that wire and it was weak. I then assumed it was the ignition switch. I borrowed a spare ignition from a friend. I just plugged it in to test it and the car fired right up. I ordered a new one from a local parts store, installed it, and everything seemed to be fine. I bolted the ignition back up to the column and tested it once more and now the car is doing the sam thing? I plugged the spare switch in again to test it and its doing the same thing wth that switch as well.. The car is nearly perfect and in no way hacked electrically or mechanically. I wonder if having my gauges wired into the same fuse over-loaded it in someway and is shorting a wire out in the ignition switch? All my grounds seem to be fine as well as all conections.. Anybody have a similar problem??? I've done some thorough research and the only thing coming close to my problem is either the starter relay and ignition switch? I've tested both and only the switch seemed to fix the problem, but now I'm back to square one...


Any input is appreciated!

-Cody

 

[luv2rallye]

Although I agree your starter wire sounds suspect also check if the starter relay is making poor contact inside it which could drop the starter signal wire voltage. If you have a M/T that relay normally stays closed during cranking - it only opens to disable the starter for alarm or clutch not pressed. A/T operates the opposite (it's normally open and closes for cranking). But even a closed relay can get poor contacts over time and with current flowing.

And always make sure you don't have poor connections to the battery and/or starter. They must have contact area completely clean and tight (both ends of cables). One negative cable should go to body and another separate cable go from battery negative (not to where the other goes to the body) to under a starter mounting bolt. Another possiblity is a weak battery. Voltage at the starter must be more than 9.6v while cranking. If not you have a weak battery or too much resistance in starter cables or connections. Even 0.1 ohm is too much in those cables/connections.

 

[radevski]

I tried another ignition switch today and it didnt resolve the issue.. I'm going to have to trace down the problem elsewhere. The battery is solid and puts out good charge.. I even tried another battery I had and it didn't make a difference.. I also tried wiggling the ignition switch around to try and see if I had a weak connection on that relay panel under the dash.. None of my relays are bad or the fuses so I'm kind of hitting a wall..

 

[bertrenolds]

Disconnect your clutch saftey switch and if that doesn't do it then pull out you ecu and look for leaky caps or burn marks.

 

[luv2rallye]

First of all what year and tranny (MT/AT) is your car?

The ECU does not control the starter in any way.

You need to find out if the click you hear is from turning key to On or to Start. Also is it from the starter relay, starter solenoid (on starter) or somewhere else.

With what you've done I'm thinking you have a short in the wiring for the starter relay. When you "ran direct power from the battery to the starter curcuit wire" where exactly on that wire did you connect (at the starter, at relay on starter side, at relay on ignition switch side, at ignition switch, at the relay on the coil side?) and did you disconnect anything?

When you "tested the signal coming from the starter relay to that wire and it was weak" what voltage was it (I assume this was when key was turned to Start)?

 

[radevski]

My car is a 91 awd M/T.

The click occurs when i turn the key to start. Im getting a click from the starter relay, starter selenoid, and form the enginebay fuse box (in front of the strut tower) from the WDO relays.
I pulled the lume and tape back off of the black/yesllow stripe wire that goes to the starter selenoid. I think its called the starter circuit wire? I pulled the tape back to where the wire is looped and there is bare wire shown. I also unpluged the harness and clamped an aligator clip onto the prong in the harness (near the battery that circuit wire goes through. The car turned over just fine when i tried both of these methods.
I didn't test the signal with a voltage meter, just a test light and it would barely give a pulse of light to the test light while the key was turned to start and held.

I also tried to unplug the clutch switch and it didnt make a difference. I forgot to mention that i tried a whole different starter switch and lock housing from a friend and the car started right up. I then bought a new starter switch from a local parts store and assembled it back onto my original lock housing. It also started the car. I was pumped! I went to bolt it back upto the column an tried it once more and now its doing the same thing it was in the forst place... I unbolted it from the column to test it and again, nothing.. I tried the backup switch from a friend again and it didnt work either. I thought i had it narrowed down to that but unfortunately, I'm back to square one.

 

[luv2rallye]

You say the starter relay is clicking. Are you sure it's the starter relay and not something else like the MPI relay or IAC doing it's startup calibration? Because as I said earlier the starter relay should not be activating at all except for theft alarm or clutch pedal not pressed.

"The car also has a clutch cut wired into the cruise switch for DSMlink." What is this "clutch cut"? You didn't mess with the clutch pedal position switch wiring did you?

 

[radevski]

To the left of the steering column, there is a relay panel with 3 relays on it. I was told the middle relay (black with a blue bottom) is the starter relay? Is this correct? The car doesn't have an anti-theft system on it. And yes, when i turn the key to start, it clicks?

The clutch cut wire is wired into the cruise switch to activate for no lift to shift opperation. The clutch pedal was never adjusted. I just followed the wiring instructions given with DSMlink. I've driven the car with link for over a 1000 miles and have never had an issue other than my NLTS not working properly.. I was planning on changing the clutch switch right when my starter problem came about. Like i said though, i unplugged the clutch with for the time beingt so it shouldn't matter.

 

[luv2rallye]

The starter relay should have black-yellow, black-white, black-red, and green-black wires. Just remove the relay and permanently jumper the black-yellow to the black-red and be done with it.

 

[radevski]

Is that safe to have it constantly jumped? I theorized it but was a little weary to try it. Thanks luv2rally! I'll try it tonight.

 

[luv2rallye]

Is that safe to have it constantly jumped?

Yes. On a M/T it normally never activates (so contacts remain closed so circuit is complete) to start the engine (key start position is what supplies power). It only activates to DISABLE the starter for alarm or clutch not pressed - which is your case. And it still is fuse protected. Stick jumper into relay socket to satisfy yourself it works. Then splice into the 2 wires and solder jumper to them (or you can cut the 2 wires and solder them together) and tape them up. Use solder so that it will be a good connection and won't get intermittant later (like going over bumps or corroding).

 

[dsm1990]

Have you ever jumped the car with a battery pack? I had a similar problem, on a talon 92, and a 91. but when i would jump it i would turn over fine. ended up being the large + cable going to the starter, also just double check with a test light that the starter solenoid is getting power. good luck and i hope this helps you. Also alot of times if i just cycle the key a bunch it would start. that was up till i fixed it .

 

[radevski]

Yes, I did try a jump pack as well as jumper cables from another vehicle and neither worked. I had the problem your talking about on a VW of mine. The positive cable to the battery was corroded.. Very frustrating! Its deffinatly something between the starter relay and circuit wore to the starter. It gets a weak charge.. I still didnt get a chance to jump the relay but will give it a shot and let you al know how it works out! Thanks again

 

[radevski]

I tried the "jumper method" to replace the starter relay and it worked! Thank you again! I used a peice of 10 gauge wire and found the same size prongs that were on the relay at a local part store. They fit and plug perfectly into the relay socket so I avoided cutting and soldering! I'm still confused why when i changed the relay, it did nothing? But, when I changed the ignition switch it worked those few times? I contmeplated getting a new relay but they are $62 from autozone and $70 from Mitsubishi. Since my car is not equipped with a theft deterant system, the 10 ga wire and socket prongs will do just fine!

 

[luv2rallye]

I suspect your "clutch cut" wire was giving you problems (probably incorrectly done). If it resulted in grounding (even partially) the starter relay's green-black wire, the relay would activate (click) and disable the starter. Perhaps that wire connection was intermittent so once in a while the ignition switch "start" worked.

 

[jcarmichael]

just wanna say thanks to luv2rallye was at a dead stop checked my starter checked my battery... figured it was my ignition switch did another search found this thread and it solved my problem, curious as to why the instructions for dsm link say to put the cut clutch wire in when it causes a issue followed the instructions to a "T". never tried NLTS to see if it worked.