IC's...Air/Air or Air/Water? [Merged 7-7] intercooler liquid

[boostedinaz]

You can search and find this answer over and over again.

On the street it wont work. Sure your car will run great for a few runs then it will heat soak just like any other small intercooler.

You could just buy a decent core and make your own pipping and never have to worry about filling up water tanks, turning on electrical motors and all kinds of other crap.

If you car is a race car then by all means go for it.

 

[boostmaniac]

I am looking for an air/liquid intercooler and I was just wondering if any body had any suggestions on where to get them from.

I also was wondering if anyone is running one and if so how is it?

 

[silkcity100]

i just installed one works great lowers temp more then the front mount and inlet temp doesnt fluctuate as much as a front mount on hot humid days,but its pricey and a pain to custom install is required no install kits available

 

[Defiant]

Try searching the internaweb. Sparco used to make them, I don't know if they still do.
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/ic_liquidtoair.htm

And:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21589

 

[wallyman]

I was thinking of fabing up a water to air side mount intercooler that would mount to the OEM location. IMO i think it would be unique to run a liquid to air side mount i/c. I wonder what kind of pressure and temperature drops occur compared to the average FMIC. Has anybody tried anything like this on a DSM?

 

[trickie]

I bought my GVR4 with one off of a typhoon setup. Its an interesting setup I dont know much about how it works other than it has a radiator up front for the water before going through the IC. I can snap some pics if you would like.

 

[gixrman]

Most don't unless your drag racing because at some point the water temp will rise to a point were it becomes ineffective at cooling compared to a A/A setup. Also factor in the added weight for the water, pump, and water reservoir (which is going to be at least 1 gallon).

A engineer at Ford SVT is working on a cooling system for the water using the A/C system for the supercharged Lightning.

Do a search on water intercooling on here it been discussed several times.

 

[wallyman]

Weight would be a minimal factor and wouldnt hurt since i have a fwd. As for cooling i planed on using an external heat exchanger that would be mounted like a FMIC.

 

[GVR4592]

Like Gixrman said, the problem becomes cooling the water. After a run the liquid to air intercooler will be pretty much useless until the water temp drops back down to a useable level, which is fine for a drag only car. That is the reason that 99% of turbocharged street cars use air to air.

 

[mr95gst]

You can do that if you are motivated is a little bit of trouble but snicky is always good. If you really want to do the setup look for the pump system off of a ford lightning truck you can get them cheap and would work nice. Adding ice for those serious races works good too. Good Luck

 

[Defiant]

I was thinking of fabing up a water to air side mount intercooler that would mount to the OEM location. IMO i think it would be unique to run a liquid to air side mount i/c.

It would be that. You will also find after doing some research that it's a huge waste of just about everything.

Has anybody tried anything like this on a DSM?

People use what works. Which is why you've not been reading about water-to-air intercoolers on DSMs, regardless where they're mounted.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21589
DSMs are fifteen years old. Virtually all the "discoveries" have been made.

 

[trickie]

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...ype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post84564

This is the setup thats on the car I bought, this work was done by the previous owner.

 

[drivemusicnow]

It would be that. You will also find after doing some research that it's a huge waste of just about everything.People use what works. Which is why you've not been reading about water-to-air intercoolers on DSMs, regardless where they're mounted.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21589
DSMs are fifteen years old. Virtually all the "discoveries" have been made.

I agree that the cars have been around and that people tend to figure out what works and what doesn't. However its also true that with forums like this, someone says something works, a couple people who don't have a clue what they're talking about jump on board, and soon a modification or part that really doesn't help, or that has bad side effects is the best thing since sliced bread.


From some personal experience, (not on a dsm) water to air charge air coolers are expensive to setup correctly. PWR offers a kit that is pretty good. The key is that you have a large enough water holding capacity, an effective air to water cooler (radiator) to cool the water off in the front of the car, and design the system such that it will effectively cool continuously. Yes, there is added weight, however it allows you to basically run a pipe straight from the compressor to the throttle body.

I don't think its the best solution, however if space is really tight like it is on some N/A to turbo cars, it can be the best way to do it. Either way, the cost really makes it into a stupid modification on DSMs because you'd be spending 1200$ plus to get a decent system, and an extremely efficient front mount, or side mount with all the piping shouldn't cost you more than 6-700$ if you piece it together yourself.

 

[Defiant]

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...ype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post84564

This is the setup thats on the car I bought, this work was done by the previous owner.

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[GSXTuner]

on the subject.. has anyone heard of or tried to make an intercooler where the row's have an inner and an outer chamber.. the outer chamber is contained within the core and charged with a compressed gas such as n2o or co2.. the inner chamber is where the intake air travels through.. then separating each row are the fins that all ICs currently use.. here's a 3/4 view of what i'm thinking about it.. sorry, done in mspaint

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[Stapl3]

Water removes heat better than that.

 

[gixrman]

on the subject.. has anyone heard of or tried to make an intercooler where the row's have an inner and an outer chamber.. the outer chamber is contained within the core and charged with a compressed gas such as n2o or co2.. the inner chamber is where the intake air travels through.. then separating each row are the fins that all ICs currently use.. here's a 3/4 view of what i'm thinking about it.. sorry, done in mspaint

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There was a setup similar to this at last years SEMA show. But have'nt seen anything more from the company.
It would take a very complex and costly manufactoring process. Coming up with a beter mousetrap is the hard part.
Try W/A injection, it achieves impressive results on hot days for me.

 

[polarmoment]

FWIW the topmount AWIC on the celica all-trac ST205 that usually gets imported with the 205 engines have been used on both the celica and MR2 for quite a while. with an efficient heat exchanger, people have reported the IC cool to the touch even after upwards of 30 min of hard driving, and the ST205 core has supported cars with over 450HP.

it's certainly possible. most people shy away from it because of the added complexity it brings, or because they like how much tighter their frontmount makes their pants fit.

 

[Defiant]

Water removes heat better than that.

And once it does, then the water has to be cooled. So you're running to another radiator for that, and all the hardware associated with it.
It's hard to beat tons of free air.

 

[JamiesTSI]

Just something I thought I would do to help pass the winter months. Plan on using a stock side mount with the end tanks cut off and new tanks tigged back on with 3 inch inlet and outlet. With 3/4 NPT bungs for water in and water out.

Not sure on the pump yet. Any ideas? Jegs sells a nice one for $175.00. I'm trying to keep this project at a budget price.

Thought about useing a Starion intercooler for a heat exchanger. Cut the inlet and outlet of the intercooler then tig some 3/4 NPT bungs on. Will this due as a heat exchanger?

Anybody know if you absolutly need a reserve tank? I'm thinking if the heat exchanger is big enough to cool the water down that the reserve tank will not be needed.

PLEASE no posts about how A/W intercoolers are only used on drag cars only. Lets try to keep this thread on the parts and how each one works with the other.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Just something I thought I would do to help pass the winter months. Plan on using a stock side mount with the end tanks cut off and new tanks tigged back on with 3 inch inlet and outlet. With 3/4 NPT bungs for water in and water out.

I wouldn't recommend using a stock IC core. Sure, you could cool it alot more efficiently, but you'd still be limited by a pretty low CFM limit. If you're really set on doing it this way, the only way I'd do it is reversing the core. Make the part where the ambient air used to pass the charge air side. Then it would flow alot more. This is still far from ideal considering the fabrication work involved, when you can get a good water/air core that's efficient to 500hp for less than a typical air/air. We picked up a 1200CFM core/tanks, pump, and 5 gal. cell used for $700. There are always used setups on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TURB...031856559QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not sure on the pump yet. Any ideas? Jegs sells a nice one for $175.00. I'm trying to keep this project at a budget price.

For a pump, you want something that will flow about 4-6GPM, 12v, designed for constant duty, and that will run dry and self-prime - and is designed for WATER. The stock Ford Lightning IC pump has been used successfully by people and can be found for like $100.

Thought about useing a Starion intercooler for a heat exchanger. Cut the inlet and outlet of the intercooler then tig some 3/4 NPT bungs on. Will this due as a heat exchanger?

Ideally, you want an exchanger that's designed to cool water. A small car radiator like from a Civic, Festiva, Metro... would be great. We're using a Honda Goldwing radiator that we found on ebay for $30, and it works very well.

Anybody know if you absolutly need a reserve tank? I'm thinking if the heat exchanger is big enough to cool the water down that the reserve tank will not be needed.

For the street, this isn't an option. The water capacity is what allows you to maintain low charge temps. Otherwise, as soon as the water does one pass, it would be hot. You can get a 4-5 gallon fuel cell for like $80-120.

PLEASE no posts about how A/W intercoolers are only used on drag cars only. Lets try to keep this thread on the parts and how each one works with the other.

Far from it, if done right, they'll cool at least as well as a big air/air on the street. Then you go to the track, throw ice in the tank, and watch the charge temps go below ambient. On a 90 degree day, we saw charge temps between 95 and 110 degrees after repeated pulls. The water in the reservoir never got over 95F. With ice in the tank on the same day, charge temps were as low as 63F! Needless to say, you'll have to compensate with some extra fuel because of the colder, denser charge. It's a fun project, which will produce very rewarding results if done correctly. Good luck and post updates.

Pics: http://homepage.mac.com/stevestrzempek/PhotoAlbum19.html

 

[GVR4592]

I know some people have used a pump from the Ford Lightning. One nice thing about a reservoir is that you can easily put ice in it at the track.

These guys have the Lightning pump for around $150
http://www.madenterprise.com/F150.htm

You might be able to find it cheaper if you could find a used one.

 

[JamiesTSI]

Any ideas on the calculations to figure CFM?

Currently looking into the Lighting water pump, was 2003 the only year that had them?

Should the postion of the pump be down bythe heat exchanger. I've read that pumps push better then they pull.

 

[napkinthief]

what about putting the whole intercooler inside a container, then useing a pump to flow the water from and to the container, therfore, you make sure of the whole intercooler core, dunno what to do about the street as this would overheat, but i think you get my point

 

[Steve93Talon]

Any ideas on the calculations to figure CFM?

Currently looking into the Lighting water pump, was 2003 the only year that had them?

Should the postion of the pump be down bythe heat exchanger. I've read that pumps push better then they pull.

Here are some Spearco CFM numbers:

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/ic_liquidtoair.htm

I'm not sure which years the lightning used a water/air IC. You can also use a Jabsco Water Puppy pump.

We run the pump right at the tank outlet, "pushing" I guess. The diagram on the Sperco link shows it after the exchanger. I really don't think it makes too much difference.