IC's...Air/Air or Air/Water? [Merged 7-7] intercooler liquid

[Kevin TSI]

My car isn't going to be strictly track dedicated so I had a question about the whole system. I would like to run the air to water intercooler, ice box/reservoir, and also a heat exchanger in the front of the car. Could someone draw a really simple MS paint drawing of how this would need to be set up? By this I mean the order the different pieces of the system should be placed in.
Thanks. Kevin

 

[thiazole]

Tank -> pump -> intercooler -> heat exchanger -> tank

 

[agentorange313]

this is how I have my set up.

RED - Intercooler
BLUE - heat exhanger
GREEN - Resevoir
YELLOW - Pump

Its a crude drawing, but you can get the idea kevintsi. Some might differ where they pump is place. I think that the best place is between the reservoir and heat exchanger. I actually am running a set up with out the reservoir. My entire set up is in the stock location for the intercooler. I was thinking about putting the reservoir in that location in the first place, but I didn't want to place the intercooler in the engine bay. So I removed the reservoir. There is no need for it, but it is nice to be able to refill the system, and also you can attach pressure caps to the reservoir to keep the system under pressure. Another advantage is when its cold out and the reservoir retains the low temps of coolant. Ideally I would place the reservoir in the truck away from all the heat, but that alot of hosing for the coolant to pass though. might need a larger pump. hope this all helps.

I just came up with the idea of changing the pump to be between the intercooler and the heatexchanger. this will allow for the pump to receive the lowest temp coolant when pumping. the constant heat of the coolant might damage the pump. I am not sure yet if this should be a concern of mine. I am going to do more research and find out the limits of the pump I am using.

just a thought i felt i should share

 

[thiazole]

I can see why a person might want to put the heat exchanger right before the intercooler, but I wouldn't do it that way - mainly because if you use ice water, the heat exchanger will work in reverse and heat that water back up to near ambient before it gets to the intercooler. On the plus side, it will blow nice cold air into your radiator and help keep you engine cool - still, probably not the effect you are going for with the heat exchanger.

this is how I have my set up.

RED - Intercooler
BLUE - heat exhanger
GREEN - Resevoir
YELLOW - Pump

Its a crude drawing, but you can get the idea kevintsi. Some might differ where they pump is place. I think that the best place is between the reservoir and heat exchanger. I actually am running a set up with out the reservoir. My entire set up is in the stock location for the intercooler. I was thinking about putting the reservoir in that location in the first place, but I didn't want to place the intercooler in the engine bay. So I removed the reservoir. There is no need for it, but it is nice to be able to refill the system, and also you can attach pressure caps to the reservoir to keep the system under pressure. Another advantage is when its cold out and the reservoir retains the low temps of coolant. Ideally I would place the reservoir in the truck away from all the heat, but that alot of hosing for the coolant to pass though. might need a larger pump. hope this all helps.

 

[agentorange313]

yea I agree with that, but I thought we were talking about daily driving the vehicle. with a reservoir you can definitely put ice water.

as for a daily driver, where the reservoir is not constantly flushed and filled, or if the reservoir is not included int he setup, I think this is the best set up.

I slammed my ecmlink cable in the door of my car and ruined the usb end. I really need to get another so I can show you guys some data logs with coolant temp of the water to air set up.

 

[tkelly27]

I'm helping setup a W/A setup and the water temp doesn't go below 10-20 above ambient. There is no reservoir for extra water. I think the IC is heat soaking under the hood and the side mount sized heat exchanger isn't big enough. I'd like to try either adding a 2nd heat exchanger, or a much bigger one.

 

[agentorange313]

on my set up I the heat exchanger where the front mount intercooler would be to dissipate heat with flowing air. I am using a 11x13x2 universal cooler with a 7 inch fan. the fan is constantly on and is mounted to the front of the cooler, pushing air toward the radiator ( pulling effect but pushing air.).

Frozen boost has a huge heat exchanger that I was thinking about getting for my setup. It has a port for a temp gauge and also uses a radiator car. Pressure rocks at keep temps down. HEAT EXCHANGER

or this one. I really like this radiator to cool the fluid. the only problem with this one is if any rocks kick up and dents it since its so long. HEAT EXCHANGER NO.2


The actually w/a intercooler for my system is located in the stock intercooler location.

Its been pretty warm the past couple of days here and all I have seen is a 15 degrees raise in temp then a drop after I have been driving for a few minutes on the highway. Stop and go traffic keeps the temps constant. It really good for daily driving I think.

Input is always welcomed.

 

[burkgonzo]

Anyone have some under hood pics of how they have the setup mounted.

 

[v8slayer]

http://m256.photobucket.com/albums/...XbS+mf7/nmWUGLiXDoFRiQp3X5zIVMa8O2nxjlhQHgF4=

 

[DashLaflash]

This is how I would do it on my 2g if I ever went water to air:

 

[v8slayer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3BrFsuK6wg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

If you watch the start of this vid it will show my A/W setup.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.121909,-123.881843

 

[DashLaflash]

If you put the heat exchanger right up against the a/c condensor can you just use the factory radiator fan for cooling. I'm not sure if the fan coming on at 200°F would be too late for the intercoolers heat exchanger.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

My 1993 DSM Eagle Talon TSI AWD - YouTube

If you watch the start of this vid it will show my A/W setup.


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I am here: Google Maps

Possibly the greatest DSM vid, let alone DSM, that I've ever seen.

 

[turboglenn]

Possibly the greatest DSM vid, let alone DSM, that I've ever seen.

+1

The only thing i think needs added is a good launch to the video..car is perfect!

 

[DashLaflash]

So can anybody tell me the water temperature that the heat exchanger fan comes on at in a water to air system? Does it just stay on all the time? Also why doesn't anybody make a bolt on water to air intercooler kit for DSMs? I know they take up a lot of room in the engine bay but I'm sure somebody could make one that goes where the SMIC used to go.

 

[TexasTurbo]

Why not wire the water pump to only come on just prior to the onset of boost? Then you wouldn't worry about the air you get just cruising cooling off the water unnecessarily.

 

[dsatchell]

Bringing this back from the dead as I some relevant questions.

1. Does anyone in the deep south have a LTA installed? I've read all 16 pages and the one thing I've noticed is that just about everyone lives in relatively cool climates. By that I mean that in Austin, Texas we had 100+ days straight of 100+ degrees last summer. I'm a little more concerned about heat soak than someone living in Canada, Virginia, California, Washington, or Maine.

2. About the ice box people want to use to cool the water. You would have to find some type of additive to keep the fluid from freezing and locking your system but if you want something really effective then fill the ice box with isopropyl rubbing alcohol or acetone and drop a block of dry ice in it. The mixture will maintain -78°C. So your water will probably need to be replaced with something else.

 

[dsatchell]

Sorry...double post.

 

[11Banger]

Anyone currently running a water 2 air setup? I am thinking of purchasing a kit. Not gonna run a heat exchanger tho, just going to half hill the fuel cell with water & then throw in a big bag of ice. Just looking for opinions

 

[11Banger]

No one... Hmmmmmm

 

[bling5tatus]

Yes I was about to say that. Air/water intercoolers work great at the track and for dyno numbers. When daily driving they heat soak just like an air/air intercooler but the big difference is that when the water gets hot it takes forever to cool back down. You'll pretty much drive with a heat soaked intercooler until you shut off the car.

So in a nutshell, air/water intercoolers work best for drag race applications. For street driving or autox/road racing a good ol FMIC works best.

100% incorrect. Please tell me how this applies to the Corvette ZL1, the S/C'd '03-'04 cobra, and the Veyron. I've been running a WAIC in my car as a daily driver for years in Texas. It works better than any air to air core I've ever used. The posts on the first page of this thread are just amazing to me. It sounds like a lot of people commenting based on what they read on the internet or heard someone else say without trying it themselves. That doesn't mean that you have to try something for yourself or else your word isn't credible but it does mean that if you're just regurgitating what you heard someone else say that you should be prepared to have your card pulled by someone with real world results.

Water to air intercooler has 2 heat exchangers rather than just one. The core itself and the radiator for the water. Under vacuum, the core dissipates heat out of the water very quickly. The intake temps after a 4th or 5th gear pull on the highway go back to ambient VERY quickly..... so where this "you're going to heat soak of you DD a WAIC" is coming from is beyond me. I hope this post helps someone make their car more kick ass by putting a water to air in it. I will never install another air to air core in anything I own...... ever again..... period.

 

[bling5tatus]

I just removed the s16g two days ago to replace it with this HTA88. Waiting on silicone couplers because I had to re-route the intercooler piping. You can see in the picture that it now has to go under the air filter pipe rather than over the top like my old set up. The icebox is mounted on a stand in the trunk that brings it to the highest level it can be and still allow the hatch cover to close and conceal it when the hatch is closed. The lines go through the spare wheel wheel and are attached to the frame rail along the passenger side of the car. They come up and over the transmission by the passenger wheel well where they feed into the stock A/C condenser core as a heat exchanger. It works great.

Edit: I will say that it was a "project" to set up but I don't regret it one bit. The work was worth it for the performance I get. Also, don't try to get away with using one of those el cheapo white bilge pumps. They're junk and are not made to pass hot water. Further their flow isn't very good compared to the bosch units like the ford cobra uses.

 

[thiazole]

100% incorrect. Please tell me how this applies to the Corvette ZL1, the S/C'd '03-'04 cobra, and the Veyron. I've been running a WAIC in my car as a daily driver for years in Texas. It works better than any air to air core I've ever used. The posts on the first page of this thread are just amazing to me. It sounds like a lot of people commenting based on what they read on the internet or heard someone else say without trying it themselves. That doesn't mean that you have to try something for yourself or else your word isn't credible but it does mean that if you're just regurgitating what you heard someone else say that you should be prepared to have your card pulled by someone with real world results.

Water to air intercooler has 2 heat exchangers rather than just one. The core itself and the radiator for the water. Under vacuum, the core dissipates heat out of the water very quickly. The intake temps after a 4th or 5th gear pull on the highway go back to ambient VERY quickly..... so where this "you're going to heat soak of you DD a WAIC" is coming from is beyond me. I hope this post helps someone make their car more kick ass by putting a water to air in it. I will never install another air to air core in anything I own...... ever again..... period.

Yeah, it is funny when something new (new to DSMers) comes out and everyone thinks it makes them look cool to come out against it. The same thing happened with E85. What they don't consider is that their incorrect statements will live forever on the internet for everyone to see long after everyone realizes how wrong they were. I've been running my WAIC for at least 5 or 6 years (I've lost count). My only complaint is somehow, even though it doesn't leak (anywhere that I can see), if I let my car sit longer than a about week without turning on the pump, I need to prime the pump again. But there is no comparison in performance on the street or the track to an air/air. The WAIC just blows the doors off air/air intercoolers.

 

[bling5tatus]

Amen, couldn't agree more. Well at least at the end of the thread here there are some posts by people that have actually run one in their car. I liked my 350hp core so much that I bought a 1100hp core from frozen boost.... that's going in my auto stroker.