How to eliminate the active rear toe, correct tie rod angle on lowered 1g awd

[nufoundglry5]

If you installed the rod ends within a thread or two of the length that the old rubber wonders, you should be in the ball park once the car is back on the ground.

1g's look all cattiwompus with the suspension extended, unless you have very little travel left.

Exactly the answer I'm looking for. Thanks.

 

[Savage Talon]

You should try to make your own.I made my own.They are not easy,I am a beginner on the lathe,It took me most of a day to make mine.
60.00 heim joints
30.00 drill bits
25.00 taps
1500.00 tig welder
$? lathe
what is shop time?

Or you could have the specs handy and sub it out to a machine shop, then double the price you paid them.

 

[underradar92]

1) Raw material prices are at least double what they were when DSS was doing this.

2) Drilling a pilot hole for a 7/8" tap isn't exactly a 30 second operation on a manual lathe.

3) Good luck getting a random shop to do 6 parts on a turning center, unless you know someone.

I made my own also, I do this stuff for a living, it's a crapload of work. This isn't a bad deal guys.

No, I won't make any for you.

 

[pagosa dsm]

Or you could have the specs handy and sub it out to a machine shop, then double the price you paid them.

I would be happy to help with the specs.I made my own.I am an old man,old school and hot rodding is making your own parts.It is not bolting on parts.You don't learn anything just installing on parts.I have made many mistakes in the past and I will make mistakes on parts in the future,You should try it.It is a lot of fun.

 

[Ludachris]

I would be happy to help with the specs.I made my own.I am an old man,old school and hot rodding is making your own parts.It is not bolting on parts.You don't learn anything just installing on parts.I have made many mistakes in the past and I will make mistakes on parts in the future,You should try it.It is a lot of fun.

The problem is the "young bucks" would rather just pay for them (if they're dirt cheap, that is). Not many people are into making their own parts these days, unfortunately. I hope to pick up a few more tools to start doing some more fabrication in the coming years. But until then, I'll have to rely on others.

I've been talking with Jay Racing about getting these things made again. He's also trying to work on the price. These aren't simple to make and he's trying to find a price that will make sense for his business as well as the community. It's still in the early stages. He's just trying to show everyone that he's making them available. Be patient.

 

[Jay Racing]

Hey guys, just a little update. We've got a set on a car and he's getting some "miles" on these. Once we are pleased with the results and any necessary design changes have been made, we will have a batch made up and keep these on the shelf once again for anyone that wants them.

Also, regarding pricing, I am a DSM guy too. I wouldn't try to sell anything at a price that I wouldn't pay (look at our other products' pricing). I will say this, if the current design works out, you guys should be very pleased with the final price!

 

[RipperXX]

Jay, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for bringing this part back. I have been wanting it for the longest time, but there has always been something else to buy. I have wanted this forever and when DSS went belly up I was like "DAMN IT!" I still don't have the cash laying around to buy it since I have to rebuild my engine or at the very least new rings, mill the warped head flat again and new head studs and gaskit.



But as soon as I have the spare cash I am buying that shit ASAP! So yea anyway just wanted to say thanks it's great having vendors around that support the comunity.


Also for all you whiny son's a bi***'s stuff it ok! I don't see you offering shit so how about you drink a nice cup of STFU! And if my comment gets me in a little hot water with a mod, well then fine. But I am sick and tired of hearing people bi*** and moan about how much stuff cost. DSM's are cheap cars, and our parts are VERY affordable compaired to many other "tuner" cars out there. Me personally I do not have the tools to make stuff like this. So I will gladly pay the price for a quality part.




Oh yea did I say thanks Jay?

 

[DSM Jeff]

I've been doing some searching on this topic. My concern is the hiem joint on a daily driver, on top of that I live off a dirt road. I was refered to a friend who does machine and lathe work and we talked about making a slug or bung for the trailing arm that is threaded. I was then looking into using a link bushing set up like this, 4Link Parts 4-Link Bushings - Adjustable 4-Link Bar End with 1" Stud or using the stock endlink and welding an adjustable stud on like this, Threaded stud to then thread into the bung.

Just wondering thoughts on this type of set up over the hiem joint. I would think this maybe more daily driver friendly. As well as an idea to keep the costs down. Maybe hiem for race and endlink for street?

btw, I'm also a mini trucker, hence the links.

 

[Jay Racing]

Cool find! I will caution you though, the stock active to link is on about a 12 degree angle, where as the end links you show are straight.

 

[RipperXX]

Very good idea though IMO. Hell maybe they could offer two products then who knows you may have just helped Jay out. Maybe a street version and a race version.


Proactive DSMers FTW! (sounds lame but seriously)




Also, I just checked out Jay's site, $195 is what he currently at this moment has up for the part. Which IMO is a steal. If I remember correctly the DSS kit was damn near $300!

 

[DSM Jeff]

Cool find! I will caution you though, the stock active to link is on about a 12 degree angle, where as the end links you show are straight.

Good to know, but I'm not sure I'm following where the 12 degree's are? The hiem is straight. Are the threads set on an angle? I'm trying to remmeber the last dss set I had in my hands and can't remember any angle? The link in that pic is straight. Its also not the correct inner sleeve or width for us. They can do custom sizing, but mainly I was using it as the example. The stud maybe more useful. They also offer studs in 3/4", 1" and 1 1/8".

And it would be cool to see something like this with a bushing for a daily set up. I'm in the process of building my car up (long, detailed build) While I know there are "sealed" hiem joints I still worry with all the crap that gets kicked up especially on my dirt road.

 

[eclipsh]

Good to know, but I'm not sure I'm following where the 12 degree's are? The hiem is straight. Are the threads set on an angle? I'm trying to remmeber the last dss set I had in my hands and can't remember any angle? The link in that pic is straight. Its also not the correct inner sleeve or width for us. They can do custom sizing, but mainly I was using it as the example. The stud maybe more useful. They also offer studs in 3/4", 1" and 1 1/8".

The 12 degrees are pretty visible in the pictures here. I believe the angle between the arm to the mounting point is what he's talking about.

What you're suggesting isn't going to be all that different from just welding in a washer to stop the movement. The reason for the heim joint instead of the washer fix is it will not bind when the suspension moves and the angle between the arm and the mounting point changes. That is because the ball in the end of the heim can rotate to any angle whereas the factory part, as well as the end link you posted, have to compress part of the rubber bushing to be able to adjust for the angle change that is moved from the flexible part we're trying to eliminate in the arm to the point where the heim or end link is installed. Make sense?

 

[DSM Jeff]

The 12 degrees are pretty visible in the pictures here. I believe the angle between the arm to the mounting point is what he's talking about.

What you're suggesting isn't going to be all that different from just welding in a washer to stop the movement. The reason for the heim joint instead of the washer fix is it will not bind when the suspension moves and the angle between the arm and the mounting point changes. That is because the ball in the end of the heim can rotate to any angle whereas the factory part, as well as the end link you posted, have to compress part of the rubber bushing to be able to adjust for the angle change that is moved from the flexible part we're trying to eliminate in the arm to the point where the heim or end link is installed. Make sense?

I actually ran out last night and took a better look at the arm to see the angle there. I know the bushing end in the arm itself is where most of the active toe comes from. I know people either welded washers or used Taboo's weldable inserts. I figure the bushing end would still flex but be more savey for the daily driven. I may pick up the studs, set the angle and use the original sleeve with the poly bushings I have in there. Then have the "bung" machined or maybe see if I can pick them up from Jay Racing.

 

[pagosa dsm]

I have had heim joint installed on my car for over 2 years.They are installed on the tie rod end for adjusted bump steer.The rear trailing arm for the toe adjustment and the upper rear control arm for camber adjustment.I drive in the winter here in Colorado and no failer in the heim joints.The car is not louder or any more vibration.If some day they wear out it will cost me a total of 180.00 for all of the heim joints.I have photos of all the modds in my gallery.

 

[DSM Jeff]

I have had heim joint installed on my car for over 2 years.I drive in the winter here in Colorado and no failer in the heim joints.

I'm guessing they are a sealed hiem? I always figure I could put a covering on them to help keep dirt out. I may go with these, and make a bushing set for my fathers car.

 

[eclipsh]

Jeff, if you look closely at the heim in these pictures of my rack you can see the rubber covers I bought for mine. They just have a small washer with a rubber seal that wraps over the ball. Some of my heims have them, some don't. Pagosa DSM helped install all of them on my car and I love the feel.

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/5/2/4/4/3/psheimend.jpg" alt="steering heim joints" />
<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/5/2/4/4/3/powersteeringnheims.jpg" alt="steering heim joints" />

On a side note, don't buy the black heims I have on my steering. They are cheaper and lighter but the tolerances aren't as good and I have enough wiggle in them after one year that I'm going to replace them with better teflon-lined units. The better quality units I have in my rear upper control arms have no play whatsoever, even after DD duty in the nastieset winter we've had in a long time in this part of Colorado.

 

[DSM Jeff]

Where did you find those rubber boots? Are they a tie rod replacement? I think I'm just going to go with the hiem set up and since my subframe is out of the car, nows the best time. And thanks for the help.

 

[pagosa dsm]

I got the rubber seals for the heim joints from speedway motors.On my 92 talon I notice less bump steer with the heim joint closest to the spindel as you can see on Nicks car.
Speedway Motors - Street Rod Parts, Race Parts, Ford Flathead Parts, Sprint and Midget Racing Parts, Pedal Car Parts

 

[DSM Jeff]

I got the rubber seals for the heim joints from speedway motors.

I should have thought to look there. I've picked up some things from there in the past. Thanks for the info.

 

[Jay Racing]

We will have 15 of these ready to ship on Monday. The website link is now open for orders.

Thanks,
Jay

 

[underradar92]

Does anyone with crossover info, know if the 3s platform can use this deal to eliminate the rear steer on 3KGT's? Their trail arms seem to have a similar bushing setup, might be an additional market for these.

 

[DSM Jeff]

Does anyone with crossover info, know if the 3s platform can use this deal to eliminate the rear steer on 3KGT's? Their trail arms seem to have a similar bushing setup, might be an additional market for these.

The bung will fit the trailing arm but the accentric (sp?) bolt is a different diameter. The dsm bolt is a smaller diameter. I believe you can drill out spacers for the hiem... I can't remember. I know someone used the dss one in a shop I was at for some time and he just modded either the spacers or the frame to accept on of the bolts (dsm or 3000)

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

We will have 15 of these ready to ship on Monday. The website link is now open for orders.

Thanks,
Jay

Awesome. Good work Jay

 

[3literpwr]

I made about 20 of the active rear toe eliminator kits about two years back and sold them all on Galantvr4.org I think I was selling them for $235 or so back then.... I was using a 2 $25 rod ends and then having the large lug machined by a local shop to the tune of $40 each.. Then I machined up the little spacers.... So in the end I dont think that $235 was too much as it had around $130.00 in parts in the kit.... I have been running the same set on my rally car since then...

As for street cars? I dont know if they are the best bet just due to the wear that the weather and junk has on the bearings...


Flickr Photo Download: DSCF1409.jpg

 

[Car Cannibal]

Very nice Jay Racing, I was hesitant to lower my 100k mile stock suspension but it looks like the market has come through again for DSM's.