How to eliminate the active rear toe, correct tie rod angle on lowered 1g awd

[silver bullit]

How to eliminate the active rear toe on the 1G with pics or links for the kit and, correct the tie rod angle when lowering a 1g with pics or links for kits.

I did search but there are topics regarding this that are old, outdated, and non of the links or pics work.

Not to mention all those topics where done in 2003-2005 its 2008 i need something to relate to that is newer and updated.

 

[drivemusicnow]

First off, there aren't any kits. You can't just buy it any more.

Second there are two main options. One is welding washers into place. The other is to build a steel or aluminum replacement using a heim joint.

The second option requires that you find a machinist willing to do a one off random ass job. PM underrader for the exact specs required for this. I believe he has a dimensioned CAD drawing you can hand your machinist.

 

[HIGHPSI4]

So, this is the same thing the Taboo kit was?

 

[AndrewD5418]

First off, there aren't any kits. You can't just buy it any more.

Second there are two main options. One is welding washers into place. The other is to build a steel or aluminum replacement using a heim joint.

The second option requires that you find a machinist willing to do a one off random ass job. PM underrader for the exact specs required for this. I believe he has a dimensioned CAD drawing you can hand your machinist.

I wouldn't trust the welding one very well compared to the later one mentioned.

 

[silver bullit]

Yeah i figured with it being so long before a topic about htis kits where no longer available.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

we have been wondering if there would be enough interest to get them made again. I know people from the old DSS that can still have them made. They're not cheap by any means, but if there is enough interest, I'm sure we can get a run of them made. Plus they're great for any racer, be it drag racing or road racing

 

[sbiggi]

we have been wondering if there would be enough interest to get them made again. I know people from the old DSS that can still have them made. They're not cheap by any means, but if there is enough interest, I'm sure we can get a run of them made. Plus they're great for any racer, be it drag racing or road racing

What is the estimated cost?

 

[AndrewD5418]

Probably around the range of 250 bux. Wow, underradar is right in wisconsin, probably about 40 min away!

 

[drivemusicnow]

If you made any sort of production run of these the cost should be way down. I mean, the heim joints you're looking at are 10-20$ or so from mcmaster-carr (undradar used 50$ ones PN 4483T901 I don't see the benefit in something that can support 15 times the load neccesary). the actual solid insert is a 4 step machining process from 2.5" round stock. and the spacers are pretty easy to make as well.

That's why 300$ was so ridiculous. But he was the only person making it. So he could charge that much. If I had time I could do a run of them, but I just don't have the time.


Here is the quote from underradar in a PM telling me what I needed to do:

Ok, here ya go. The piece that goes into the control arm and gets welded is 2.5" round cold rolled 1018, 1.45" long, drilled & tapped for 7/8 fine thread, with the O/D turned to 2.111" leaving a .262 flange. The pieces that trap the rod ends in the subframe with the thru-bolts are 1.06 round (mine are stainless, but aluminium would be ok too), .945 long, stepped down to .750 to fit into the ball in the rod end, with a .57 thru-hole. You need two of the first piece & 4 of the second. Hope I explained that well enough.

That's assuming you use the above part number (I'm pretty sure it's the right one, it's been awhile though)

I would use PN 4444T501 from McMaster carr, and adjust the spacers to work with that. 10$ apiece and still has a 10K lbs load capacity. Only downside is that it has to be greased, but I don't have any issue with this.
EDIT: actually, I'd probably pick up rod ends from pegasus racing. They're a bit more expensive, but Aurora has a very good name for stuff like this.


Also, for the tie rod angle, the only real solution is to use the FWD spindles. Advantage is that it lowers the tie rod mount location on the spindle. disadvantage is reduced steering feel due to a larger moment arm on the steering mount location (it's lower and further rearward)

I don't really know of any other solutions.

 

[pagosa dsm]

I made my own trailing arm with heim joints.I also adjusted my bump steer with heim jonts.It is very easy to make the heim joints to adjust the bump steer.I have photos in my gallery.

 

[AndrewD5418]

I made my own trailing arm with heim joints.I also adjusted my bump steer with heim jonts.It is very easy to make the heim joints to adjust the bump steer.I have photos in my gallery.

Bump steer?

 

[pagosa dsm]

Bump Steer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[underradar92]

Bump steer?

My lifted Ranger sort of drives itself going over bumps.

That's bump steer, not to be confused with bum steer, that's cattle.

Oh yeah, the ultra heavy duty heim joints are also PTFE (Teflon*) lined, so no grease. I'm just sayin'.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

How to eliminate the active rear toe on the 1G with pics or links for the kit and, correct the tie rod angle when lowering a 1g with pics or links for kits.

I did search but there are topics regarding this that are old, outdated, and non of the links or pics work.

Not to mention all those topics where done in 2003-2005 its 2008 i need something to relate to that is newer and updated.

Check out this thread. It still has some active pics of toe elimination options.

*EDIT* The above link references a thread with Pagosa DSMs pics, which are already referenced earlier in this thread. I'll leave the link up in case you want to check out that thread.

Here's a pic of the kit I bought from DSS:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

As for tie rod angle, I believe you would need to get a custom setup that would involve adjustable height. *OR*, a quick/cheap/easy way is to put in FWD uprights. The knuckle on the FWD uprights is lower, which will correct the geometry on lowered AWD cars.

 

[nufoundglry5]

Picasa Web Albums - Steve - Rear Toe Elim... This is the plug that gets welded into the trailing arm.

Picasa Web Albums - Steve - Rear Toe Elim... These are the bushings for the rod ends. I made these from 304 stainless.


These prints were drawn from what underradar had sent to me.

Also
QA1 Precision Products XMR12-14 - QA1 Rod Ends - summitracing.com These Rod ends from Summit are identical to the mcmaster PN: 4475T701 and they're $14 cheaper.

 

[KiNg MaRtY]

we have been wondering if there would be enough interest to get them made again. I know people from the old DSS that can still have them made. They're not cheap by any means, but if there is enough interest, I'm sure we can get a run of them made. Plus they're great for any racer, be it drag racing or road racing

I'm interested. Bolt-on kit?

 

[Jay Racing]

Just an FYI. We are currently working on making these available to the entire DSM community once again. Stay tuned!

Thank you,
Jay White
Jay Racing
937 248 7846

 

[Jay Racing]

As promised:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

We are currently looking for someone to test this for us for fit and function. We have set pricing on our website to reflect the same pricing as DSS had. The person that agrees to get these installed and provide us with feedback quickly will receive a 50% discount from this price. We will release this product to the public as soon as sufficient data has been received from this prototype. If you are interested and can meet our requirement, please email us at [email protected]

Thank you,
Jay White
Jay Racing
937 248 7846

 

[97spyder maayng]

cough...group buy...cough cough

 

[AndrewD5418]

No offense but we all know that these can be made for cheaper.. can't they?

 

[pagosa dsm]

No offense but we all know that these can be made for cheaper.. can't they?

You should try to make your own.I made my own.They are not easy,I am a beginner on the lathe,It took me most of a day to make mine.
60.00 heim joints
30.00 drill bits
25.00 taps
1500.00 tig welder
$? lathe
what is shop time?

 

[eclipsh]

I'll second Pagosa DSM because he's right. You can have them cheaper if you can make them yourself, use someone else's equipment, not have overhead or labor costs and don't expect to make any money for your efforts. Otherwise you pay what Jay is asking and be glad he's offering them to the community.

That said, thanks for making these again Jay. I'm sure you understand that we in the DSM crowd, including myself, are a bunch of cheap bastards. I'm just a cheap, DIY bastard so I'll be making my own with a little help

 

[nufoundglry5]

Hey guys sorry to take this a little off topic but I finally got my toe eliminator kit installed and everything fit nicely with the dimensions underrader gave me but it seems like my car has some toe in even when the alignment bolt is spun all the way in the one direction. I tried pulling the trailing arms back down and I spun the rod ends out about 5 turns and it seemed to not change anything. Would this be the correct way to try to get the toe spec'd back into place, or is this changing a slightly different geometry just pushing my wheel further into the wheel well. Or should I wait until I get the car back on the ground before I assume the toe is out spec because it looks that way when the car is in the air?

Thanks in advance

Steve

 

[1992awdlaser]

Aligment angles will change when the car is lowered.

 

[underradar92]

If you installed the rod ends within a thread or two of the length that the old rubber wonders, you should be in the ball park once the car is back on the ground.

1g's look all cattiwompus with the suspension extended, unless you have very little travel left.