How far have you pushed your stock 6bolt Head Bolts?

[toofast82]

I was just wondering how far some of you on the forum have pushed your stock 6bolt head bolts?
I've heard people in various threads throw out some pretty impressive numbers

I would like to hear how much boost you were running and for how many miles.
Which turbo you were running and power numbers if you know them

Just curious


I've had dsms with ARP head studs and am well aware of the benefits to running them, so please don't respond with something like "just get arps and be done". I also don't desire to hear your opinion of the stock bolts with stuff like "you need them above 17psi" etc.

Also if you got some good numbers on 7bolt head bolts, lets hear them!

 

[97eclipseNT]

a friend of mine has a 2g (still a completely stock 7bolt) that after a few thousand miles on his 30r setup (about 19psi) is starting to have issues with the stock head bolts. He doesnt drive the car that much but when he does he drives it pretty hard. The bolts themselves have about 115k on them as far as i know.

 

[toofast82]

a friend of mine has a 2g (still a completely stock 7bolt) that after a few thousand miles on his 30r setup (about 19psi) is starting to have issues with the stock head bolts. He doesnt drive the car that much but when he does he drives it pretty hard. The bolts themselves have about 115k on them as far as i know.

Explain "issues" Is he "pushing" coolant under boost?
I hear this is what usually happens with the smaller 7blt headbolts.
I have heard people say they've made over 400whp on them though

 

[phunny]

Just remember, most of the replys you are going to get are hear-say.

 

[dsm-onster]

Here's my hearsay

My car: t31 60-1 with BEP turbine housing 32psi fp2x cams open exhaust, good intake. Stock intake manifold. 52lb/min flow with dsmlink calibrated maft. Stock composite headgasket, stock 6bolt head bolts. 1.5sec 70-90time (about 128mph in the 1/4 or about 11.2 sec based on dsmlink wiki).

Main difference between high power setups who lose a gasket with stock 6bolt headbolts and those that don't will be whether or not there was ANY knock. I was running water/meth injection.

 

[toofast82]

Just remember, most of the replys you are going to get are hear-say.

There should be some replies from people on here that I feel are reliable sources as well. But yeah, I expect some hear-say as well, but I can weed out the bad ones.

I've seen 25psi, but not sure of the power numbers
A friend of mine runs 23-24psi on a FpRed on the stock bolts, but no dyno on that one either.
Years back when I sold my first dsm to a friend, the wastegate actuator was stuck. He was an idiot and didnt mind driving around at 33psi and probably negative timing from all the knock, but it held up

 

[toofast82]

Here's my hearsay

My car: t31 60-1 with BEP turbine housing 32psi fp2x cams open exhaust, good intake. Stock intake manifold. 52lb/min flow with dsmlink calibrated maft. Stock composite headgasket, stock 6bolt head bolts. 1.5sec 70-90time (about 128mph in the 1/4 or about 11.2 sec based on dsmlink wiki).

Main difference between high power setups who lose a gasket with stock 6bolt headbolts and those that don't will be whether or not there was ANY knock. I was running water/meth injection.

Thanks Matt, this is the stuff I wanted to hear and I consider you a very reliable source
It's all in the tune!

 

[dsm-onster]

Yep. It's about cylinder pressure, not boost. So it's good to see you clarifying that you have no numbers. Like me, I have no dyno numbers or track MPH and weight. I just have lb/min flow and a semi-speculative 70-90mph time. Regardless. One person who runs 40psi can have a headbolt hold up better than another at 25psi. Because the second could have much more cylinder pressure at his lower boost.

ARP head studs are such affordable insurance, that it's just a no brainer for anyone running 400+ whp even with the larger 6bolt headbolts. I've botched a tune and lifted the head at 20psi and a small 16g WITH the 6bolt arp headstuds (6bolt fasteners are much stronger than 7bolt fasteners even if they are both ARP hardware: 6bolt holes in the block are a larger diameter)

 

[toofast82]

Yep, cylinder pressure
I would also like to hear how much timing and type of fuel was being used. So if you guys care to share that info as well, let's hear it

 

[donniekak]

Holset hx40, 26psi, stock 6-bolt headbolts and new composite gasket, peak timing 16*, all boltons. I ended up going to arp's and a mitsu mls gasket. Not because of any problems, just because i wanted to push the setup. I have said in another thread, the 3000gt vr4's use the same type of headbolts as the 6-bolt engine. People have run 8's on them. A lot of the people pushing the 3s platform say that the stock bolts hold better for them than regular arp's. The l19's and a1 studs are the only improvement for the 3s guys. Myself, i think the main improvement in going from bolts to regular arp's is the fact that they are studs, and torque better by design.

 

[toofast82]

Holset hx40, 26psi, stock 6-bolt headbolts and new composite gasket, peak timing 16*, all boltons. I ended up going to arp's and a mitsu mls gasket. Not because of any problems, just because i wanted to push the setup..

Thats good info!

I have said in another thread, the 3000gt vr4's use the same type of headbolts as the 6-bolt engine. People have run 8's on them. A lot of the people pushing the 3s platform say that the stock bolts hold better for them than regular arp's. The l19's and a1 studs are the only improvement for the 3s guys.

I've read these things also, they are the same diameter and pitch as 6b bolts like you said

Myself, i think the main improvement in going from bolts to regular arp's is the fact that they are studs, and torque better by design.

Definitely one of the advantages of going to studs

 

[dsm-onster]

Holset hx40, 26psi, stock 6-bolt headbolts and new composite gasket, peak timing 16*, all boltons. I ended up going to arp's and a mitsu mls gasket. Not because of any problems, just because i wanted to push the setup. I have said in another thread, the 3000gt vr4's use the same type of headbolts as the 6-bolt engine. People have run 8's on them. A lot of the people pushing the 3s platform say that the stock bolts hold better for them than regular arp's. The l19's and a1 studs are the only improvement for the 3s guys. Myself, i think the main improvement in going from bolts to regular arp's is the fact that they are studs, and torque better by design.

They also have 6 cylinders to spread the cylinder pressure around to make 8sec passes I forgot all about you Donniekak. Good stuff!

I forgot to mention that I was running stock 7.8:1 compression but with the aggresive stock 1g timing map. No tweeking.

 

[toofast82]

I forgot to mention that I was running stock 7.8:1 compression but with the aggresive stock 1g timing map. No tweeking.

I'm assuming you are referring to the 32psi 60-1 on meth?
Still a pretty aggressive curve, even with the meth on that much boost

 

[dsm-onster]

Lots of water/meth there

 

[olmytsi]

<<<< currently on a bone stock 6 bolt running as much as 28 psi on a 50 trim on straight 93.

I know some guys on NABR have said that the 6BOLT head bolts are just as if not stronger than standard ARP's.

 

[quayzar590awd]

Mine isnt really that special compared to some of yours. I ran gt35 on 14-17 psi with stock bolts on my gvr4. New OE bolts. Never had any issue except wanting MORE MORE MORE BOOOOST but I couldn't afford to support its full flow capacity. I got the turbo for free with a parts talon. It was in a box and looked to be if not new very slightly used. I was using alky injection btw idk if you needed to know. Logger showed very little to no knock. I ran it for about 15-20k miles with that set up before it popped the h/g. Fuel was pump 93 always. Every so often I put up to 20% blend of AV gas as a treat on friday nights. Man that stuff smells good when it burns. Mods .20 over manley rods, weisco pistons, ffwd level 2.0 head and dsm link that was about it for the big stuff. Nothing special just a DD beater.

 

[toofast82]

<<<< currently on a bone stock 6 bolt running as much as 28 psi on a 50 trim on straight 93.

That's pushing them pretty good!
Any dyno or 1/4mile times to report with that or Link airflow estimate?

 

[olmytsi]

No dyno/track with this much boost. I did go 12.5 with a shitty 2.0 60 foot with the same exact setup at 20 psi. So i'm hoping to be going at least 11.9 as is.

I ran 28 for a few days but the car was knocking up top which i expected being on straight 93 and i don't recall the airflow. But at 26 which is what i currently run, i'm seeing 45 lbs/min.

I got gsc s1 cams going in in the next few days, let's see how much airflow i gain.

I plan on throwing c16 in the car and cranking it up a lil for a lil fun, hopefully it stays together

 

[lacroixdp]

A nice advantage to ARP studs is if you are frequently taking your head off for work - it is less wear on your block threads.

 

[olmytsi]

True!

 

[donniekak]

No dyno/track with this much boost. I did go 12.5 with a shitty 2.0 60 foot with the same exact setup at 20 psi. So i'm hoping to be going at least 11.9 as is.

I ran 28 for a few days but the car was knocking up top which i expected being on straight 93 and i don't recall the airflow. But at 26 which is what i currently run, i'm seeing 45 lbs/min.

I got gsc s1 cams going in in the next few days, let's see how much airflow i gain.

I plan on throwing c16 in the car and cranking it up a lil for a lil fun, hopefully it stays together

28 psi with knock is some serious cylinder pressure spikes. Good to see that info. What head gasket?

 

[olmytsi]

ALL STOCK, just has the balance shafts removed.

 

[toofast82]

ALL STOCK, just has the balance shafts removed.

7bolt, pretty impressed
It takes some courage to push it like that especially on 93oct. How much timing are you running?

 

[turboglenn]

I pushed a stock 7 bolt to 30psi and a stock 6 bolts to 32, the only reason the head gasket failed on the 7 bolt is because i ran lean and detoanted.

the 7 bolt ventures were on C16 and the 6 bolt stuff was on av-gas

Now days i do all the same and more timing but run e85 and now have a fully built engine

 

[toofast82]

I pushed a stock 7 bolt to 30psi and a stock 6 bolts to 32, the only reason the head gasket failed on the 7 bolt is because i ran lean and detoanted.

the 7 bolt ventures were on C16 and the 6 bolt stuff was on av-gas

Now days i do all the same and more timing but run e85 and now have a fully built engine

Was this on the 50trim?
Do you remember how much total timing?

AV gas is a little over 100octane right?