How far can I rev on a stroker block?

[1fastlaser]

Exactly my point, who else? The 2.0 has been 6's. I'm not bashing strokers. Many people have problems keeping them together at high revs. Strokers are very good, up to a point. After a certain point a 2.0 actually has a wider powerband, just higher. When you have a turbo capable of really big power, sure you spool 5-700 rpm's sooner. But, you rev limit is 2500 rpm's lower/ what the stroker really does is make more torque, the enemy of the dsm trans. If you are looking for a 6-700 hp monster a stroker is killer. To run 200mph in the quarter you need the revs of the 2.0.

Most people wont even be into the 9s.

Tony from extremepsi has been 9.9@ over 145 2g
Chris Tapp from Tapp auto has been 9.7 at over 150 in a 2.4 2g
Tim Zimmer has been 9.96@143 on low boost 2.4 and the old setup. 2g

Im sure there is more, there just off the top of my head.

If you think your gonna keep any kind of factory "glorified" built transmission together in a 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 at 500+ hp and whatever torque number your terribly misinformed. There are guys making 900hp and running a factory built gearbox with a 2.0 making over 700 ft lbs of torque? So whats the difference in a 2.4 making 650hp and 550 ft lbs? Driving plays a key roll. And honestly if your not auto, or have a dogbox then you might as well be ready to break alot of transmissions.

Arguing about whats better is really useless. There will always be he said she said on here. Really no motor will be better at the start if the machine shop dosent build it right. Guys havent pushed the 2.4 far yet, but they will be there, and as usual all this will be out the door.

Read post back in the day when people thought a 60-1 turbo was WAY to big for the street , now guys like me are street driving gt42s.

 

[twicks69]

With the 4G64 crank onto a 4G63 block I was wondering how far or high can the motor rev? According to the gallant 100mm crankshaft their red line sets at 6 grand?

8400rpm is the safe limit with aftermarket internals using steel rods, and supporting modifications.

You can rev higher, but it requires some more trick parts to make it hold together for longer.

If you are intending on making ALOT of power, or revving it regularly to or above 8450rpm, I would strongly suggest running 0.220"-wall tool-steel wrist pins. I would also run aftermarket steel rods with a quality rod bolt.



As for my engines, past and present....

*2005-2008 setup: 2.3L 7-bolt stroker = FFWD Butcher Crank cryoed, Eagle rods cryoed, 0.020"-over Ross stroker 9.0:1 compression 23mm-pin, stroker pistons cryoed/coated, Clevite 77 tri-metal bearings rod/mains. 99-block w/ split thrust main bearing. BSEK with stubshaft and helical oil pump gears. ARP mains, ARP L19 11mm head studs, Mitsu MLS head gasket.
---Re-ringed and new bearings around 30K miles in spring 2008. Rod bearings were pounded up pretty good and material was flaking off. Main outer bearings looked brand new, main inner bearings were getting chewed up, thrust bearing had some wear.
---Took motor apart in September 2008 after a few thousand miles when the GT4088R died. Found that the rod bearings were still getting pounded, and that the main bearings were looking good on the outers, and the inner mains were thoroughly chewed up along with the thrust bearing. I also had tossed two harmonic dampers, and took out 2 crank angle sensors.

---End result = crank was bent 0.014" out-of-straight, causing my crank to essentially jump-rope and take out the inner mains/thrust surfaces. It actually curved the riding surface on the block and girdle for the thrust bearing.

---Cause: = crank could not handle higher than ~35psi before it started having jumproping issues. I was also revving to 8400-8600rpm and running anywhere from 42-52psi of boost for a long time without severe issues.


This engine produced 766AWHP/713TQ at 42psi on VP Q16 with the Garrett GT4088R. It did 9.96@ 143mph, and a top mph of 148mph -- on the 641AWHP/567TQ tune with the old SMIM at 35psi (which produced 740AWHP/696TQ at 49psi before changing to the Beyond Redline SMIM). I never got back onto the dyno to produce the numbers I was hoping for -- 800-825AWHP on a Garrett GT4088R. Compressor wheel snapped off, and hand-grenaded the turbo. The engine was making around 1000-1035HP and 900-940TQ at the crank before it died. On Eagle off-the-shelf rods, on a 7-bolt.

If you want to see some dyno graphs to see where the powerband is on a moderately large turbo (GT4088R), check out my photo album in my profile, as I have several posted. You can see where the torque starts to drop, and that you don't really need to rev past 8000rpm with a stroker on a GT4088R.


*2009 Setup: 2.3L 7-bolt stroker = STOCK 7-bolt 2.4L crank from a 2002 Kia Optima, custom Groden aluminum rods w/ ARP harware, custom CP ~8.0:1 compression 0.005"-over pistons with skirt coating only. Custom 24mm 0.220"-wall tool steel wrist pins, custom ring pack placement and dome/skirt designs. 1999 4G63 virgin block. BSEK w/ stubshaft and 1990 straight cut gears. Aluminum rod bearings, Clevite Main bearings with split-thrust main design. ARP mains, ARP L19 11mm head studs, Mitsu MLS head gasket.


So far, this engine has only been pushed a little bit, as I ran out of fuel with the current twin-pump setup and 1350cc injectors.

It did 643AWHP/496TQ at 30psi, revving out to only 7500rpm. HP was carrying and still climbing, and peak torque was at 6200rpm, and down to 460TQ at 7500rpm.

It did 779AWHP/602TQ at 6500rpm on a partial pull at 41psi (low boost). Ran out of fuel. Both numbers were still going upwards at 6500rpm. (Approximately 1012-1050HP / 782-813TQ at the crank).

Redline is at 9000rpm on this engine setup, as it is making upward power above 8000rpm due to the size of the turbocharger I am currently running (Borg Warner S400SX 74mm with Bullseye RACE compressor cover on a 1.1A/R T4 divided turbine housing). The goal is to run over 50-55psi of boost with this turbo if possible. HP Goal is 900+AWHP. ET Goal is high-8's. MPH Goal is 160-162mph.

At 30psi, the Eclipse did 10.20's at mph's ranging from 138-145mph on Q16/Import mix on a very very safe and conservative tune. 4-6 degrees of ignition timing only. I could have been running 93-octane all-day at this boost/timing level. Race gas was an insurance policy since I was having fuel issues, and low voltage issues.

There is a helluvalot left in the setup.

 

[JacksonAuto]

evv this setup".

Its not how high you can revv it, its were you make power to. Just because you can revv a motor to 9k plus, dosent mean your going to be making efficent power there. Revving high just puts more wear on parts regardless if your 2.0, 2.3, or 2.4....but if you make power there then go for it.

Bingo! Somebody gets it

 

[JacksonAuto]

Bingo! Somebody gets it

We offer several different stroker combinations and performance level packages for our 4G63 engine customers. As with all our builds we determine the best internals and methods needed to achieve the desired power goals.
Typically and all too often a customer will choose a serious mismatch of internals and this causes permature failures and poor results. Not all parts can live in the same hostile enviroment or tolerate the same levels of abuse. The wrong part can and will take out everything. All components are NOT created equal no matter how much advertising is done on that parts behalf-the end results and engine life is the true quality test!

We currently have several stroker engines that can run in excess of 8800rpm's and still make Power Our specialized engine designs can make more power at lower boost levels, run harder, run longer and give the customer more performance then expected.
All too often "Shops" advertise and incorperate methods and services into their 4G63 customer build that were actually not designed or inteneded for the 4 cyl engine use and performance benefits.
With our complete builds we address everything with our customer for his/her performance and use the first time.

 

[1fastlaser]

Bingo! Somebody gets it

Thank you.

I know there is alot of knowlegable people on here that just wanna help. I just wanna see everyone learn the right ways. I figured the forums are for information, and alot of information on here is hear say, and it gets very annoying sometimes.

Learning new stuff is the fun part, Im still learning.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Thank you.

I know there is alot of knowlegable people on here that just wanna help. I just wanna see everyone learn the right ways. I figured the forums are for information, and alot of information on here is hear say, and it gets very annoying sometimes.

Learning new stuff is the fun part, Im still learning.

Learning about engine, performance, and failures can be very exciting. Education costs no matter how you go about it

 

[caliboy23]

Empty claims with little explanation that's so fulfilling.

If you want an explanation call the source. I told you what was said. No more, no less. Mike Whelch at Road Race Engineering. He was one of the judges in the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car Challenge for the catagory of "Engineering." On top of the fact that he and David Buschur helped pioneer DSM tuning. So if I were just guessing off the top of my head, I might take the guys word for it and not ask for an explanation. I THINK the guy knows a little more than we do.

Road Race Engineering
(562) 777-1522

 

[awddsm95]

8400rpm is the safe limit with aftermarket internals using steel rods, and supporting modifications.

You can rev higher, but it requires some more trick parts to make it hold together for longer.

If you are intending on making ALOT of power, or revving it regularly to or above 8450rpm, I would strongly suggest running 0.220"-wall tool-steel wrist pins. I would also run aftermarket steel rods with a quality rod bolt.

"Safe" is a very relative term. If the engine is built correctly, you can take a stroker past 9000. I have seen them reved to 9300-9400 in some drag cars with off the shelf quality parts "safely".

I really dont feel that it is soley the RPM that kills the stroker engines, but more a combination of insufficient oiling at the higher RPMs, followed by the power output at that given higher RPM.

Obviously the inertial loadings and piston derivatives are higher with a longer stroke crankshaft. Oiling becomes even more critical due to this. Its important to keep a sufficient oil film layer between the crank and bearings at all times. As you "load up" the bearings more with the extra stroke and higher RPMs, its becomes easier to break through this oil film layer (thats assuming that it is a good film layer to start with)

Most of the failures that I have seen in 100mm stroker applications are due to insufficient oiling and clearencing.

If you have issues with oiling (which the 4G63 does, even around the stock rev limit), gaurenteed, the issues will get worse with more RPM, more stroke, and more power.

 

[fastfive0]

8400rpm is the safe limit with aftermarket internals using steel rods, and supporting modifications.

You can rev higher, but it requires some more trick parts to make it hold together for longer.

If you are intending on making ALOT of power, or revving it regularly to or above 8450rpm, I would strongly suggest running 0.220"-wall tool-steel wrist pins. I would also run aftermarket steel rods with a quality rod bolt.



As for my engines, past and present....

*2005-2008 setup: 2.3L 7-bolt stroker = FFWD Butcher Crank cryoed, Eagle rods cryoed, 0.020"-over Ross stroker 9.0:1 compression 23mm-pin, stroker pistons cryoed/coated, Clevite 77 tri-metal bearings rod/mains. 99-block w/ split thrust main bearing. BSEK with stubshaft and helical oil pump gears. ARP mains, ARP L19 11mm head studs, Mitsu MLS head gasket.
---Re-ringed and new bearings around 30K miles in spring 2008. Rod bearings were pounded up pretty good and material was flaking off. Main outer bearings looked brand new, main inner bearings were getting chewed up, thrust bearing had some wear.
---Took motor apart in September 2008 after a few thousand miles when the GT4088R died. Found that the rod bearings were still getting pounded, and that the main bearings were looking good on the outers, and the inner mains were thoroughly chewed up along with the thrust bearing. I also had tossed two harmonic dampers, and took out 2 crank angle sensors.

---End result = crank was bent 0.014" out-of-straight, causing my crank to essentially jump-rope and take out the inner mains/thrust surfaces. It actually curved the riding surface on the block and girdle for the thrust bearing.

---Cause: = crank could not handle higher than ~35psi before it started having jumproping issues. I was also revving to 8400-8600rpm and running anywhere from 42-52psi of boost for a long time without severe issues.


This engine produced 766AWHP/713TQ at 42psi on VP Q16 with the Garrett GT4088R. It did 9.96@ 143mph, and a top mph of 148mph -- on the 641AWHP/567TQ tune with the old SMIM at 35psi (which produced 740AWHP/696TQ at 49psi before changing to the Beyond Redline SMIM). I never got back onto the dyno to produce the numbers I was hoping for -- 800-825AWHP on a Garrett GT4088R. Compressor wheel snapped off, and hand-grenaded the turbo. The engine was making around 1000-1035HP and 900-940TQ at the crank before it died. On Eagle off-the-shelf rods, on a 7-bolt.

If you want to see some dyno graphs to see where the powerband is on a moderately large turbo (GT4088R), check out my photo album in my profile, as I have several posted. You can see where the torque starts to drop, and that you don't really need to rev past 8000rpm with a stroker on a GT4088R.


*2009 Setup: 2.3L 7-bolt stroker = STOCK 7-bolt 2.4L crank from a 2002 Kia Optima, custom Groden aluminum rods w/ ARP harware, custom CP ~8.0:1 compression 0.005"-over pistons with skirt coating only. Custom 24mm 0.220"-wall tool steel wrist pins, custom ring pack placement and dome/skirt designs. 1999 4G63 virgin block. BSEK w/ stubshaft and 1990 straight cut gears. Aluminum rod bearings, Clevite Main bearings with split-thrust main design. ARP mains, ARP L19 11mm head studs, Mitsu MLS head gasket.


So far, this engine has only been pushed a little bit, as I ran out of fuel with the current twin-pump setup and 1350cc injectors.

It did 643AWHP/496TQ at 30psi, revving out to only 7500rpm. HP was carrying and still climbing, and peak torque was at 6200rpm, and down to 460TQ at 7500rpm.

It did 779AWHP/602TQ at 6500rpm on a partial pull at 41psi (low boost). Ran out of fuel. Both numbers were still going upwards at 6500rpm. (Approximately 1012-1050HP / 782-813TQ at the crank).

Redline is at 9000rpm on this engine setup, as it is making upward power above 8000rpm due to the size of the turbocharger I am currently running (Borg Warner S400SX 74mm with Bullseye RACE compressor cover on a 1.1A/R T4 divided turbine housing). The goal is to run over 50-55psi of boost with this turbo if possible. HP Goal is 900+AWHP. ET Goal is high-8's. MPH Goal is 160-162mph.

At 30psi, the Eclipse did 10.20's at mph's ranging from 138-145mph on Q16/Import mix on a very very safe and conservative tune. 4-6 degrees of ignition timing only. I could have been running 93-octane all-day at this boost/timing level. Race gas was an insurance policy since I was having fuel issues, and low voltage issues.

There is a helluvalot left in the setup.

Tim looks like my stroker is very close to the same build as your FFWD.Darren builds some good ones out there! Mine is only 8.5 or 8.8 compression though. Now all i have to do is convince myself to turn the boost up . As always you have some great stroker tech!