How do i launch my AWD [Merged 6-7]

[IHeartTurbo]

BAM
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50056

 

[Frontwheeler]

I had my new AWD Talon to the track for the first time this weekend and had quite a few difficulties with bogging my launch. I have been racing a FWD DSM at the track for the last two years and all of my FWD habbits are killing my AWD launch. (just not used to all this traction) I have read all of of the AWD launch threads and tried to firmly slip my clutch at about 4000 rpm. I think my problem is that I am not getting into the throttle hard soon enough while letting the clutch out. I am really disapointed with the times because after the bogging launch the car absolutly screams down the track. So here is what I am asking:

1. Does anybody have any experience with this problem and any advice ? (not reving to 6500 and dropping the clutch please)

2. Looking at my timeslip, what is the potential of this car if I could manage a 1.9 60ft ?
Maybe a mid to low 13 sec.


Time slip

60ft 2.334 (absolutely horrible, I know)
E.T. 14.024
MPH 100.9


Car Mods
Heavily ported small 16G and ported exhaust mani
Freshly rebuilt 6 bolt
MAFT blowthrough set up
Data Logging Equipement
19 lbs boost on 100 oct fuel
02 dump and full exhaust
Spec 2 clutch
Stock Intercooler and Injectors (for now)

Thanks for any help guys.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Rev it higher. Try 5000 or 5500 and then give the clutch a quick slip and as soon as the car starts to move mash the gas.

Should be capable of a mid to high 13 with that mph.

 

[Punnisher]

I did an awd launch the other day while going to my friends house to part out the eclipse. It was my first launch, and it didn't bog at all. All I did was rev it to about 5000, then let out the clutch quickly, but not too quick. When you let out the clutch mash the throttle at the same time.

 

[Gunghoedillyo]

I know this is a dumb question, but how do you properly launch a awd car with a automatic transmission?

 

[Game Over]

brake boosting

 

[Gunghoedillyo]

OK thats what I was thinking. "Brake Boosting" meaning I put the brake to the floor and rev the engine to say 2000-2500RPM and let her go?

 

[mysticfire6602]

2k-2.5k? id say go to like 6k-7k

 

[Defiant]

I know this is a dumb question, but how do you properly launch a awd car with a automatic transmission?

Only one warning: it's not built to be doing that with. You're putting many of your dollars in serious peril.

This ain't a movie. This is your real life.

 

[griff]

The best way to do it is to mash the break down, and the e-brake once you get a big enough turbo, and put the gas to the floor. Let the boost build up for no more than 5 seconds. The reason for that is because of the massive amounts of heat that will be built up from power braking in your transmission, you will also be heatsoaking the intercooler. Once it's been 4-5 seconds, let the brakes go and keep it floored. Before I upgraded, I had a 14b in my awd auto, and could get the tires to break loose a little. I was able to leave the line with about 15 lbs of boost.

Hope this helps.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

When your transmission brakes, Don't come posting how unreliable dsm's are. No one should even be giving him advice about how he should take it up as high as he can, And then do it. Do you know how much strain you are actually putting on your shit when you are doing this? Get it built if you want to do it or you'll pay in the long run. That's just my opinion though

 

[Gunghoedillyo]

I know its bad on the transmission, I was just wondering if there was a semi safe way of doing it. I was watching some dsmers (both automatic, both awd, one stock, one semi modified) take off like bats out of hell at the drag strip a few days ago. Ive never seen a launch so fast before. So Im guessing thats how they probly did it.

 

[L0G1C]

I know its bad on the transmission, I was just wondering if there was a semi safe way of doing it...

Hell no...

At least you didn't ask "Is it safe to rev my shit in neutral to 7k then drop it into drive" like my brother did...

Anyway...
I would think that your average "heavily modified" AWD Automatic DSM would have plenty of low end off-the-line power. Put some $$ into your tranny (end clutch kit, shift kit, modified valve body, custom converter etc.) and go wild with power-related mods when you're sure your transmission can handle it. There are AWD Auto DSMs running low 10s and high 9s, so I'm sure you'll be able to reach your goal without having to powerbrake your launches...

just my $0.02

 

[Defiant]

And, "brake" is what stops a car, and "break" is when something fails.

 

[definitiveno]

And, "brake" is what stops a car, and "break" is when something fails.

also used to reference a gap....



Brake boosting is perfectly fine for a stock trans, in fact the same rules apply for a stock trans as they do for a built one. As some body already mentioned brake boosting any longer than 5 seconds ata time is detrimental to your transmission. The key is to make sure you let the transmission thoroughly cool off afterward. Think of how a transmission is setup internally, there really is not alot of ways to dispearse all the internal heat that is produced from 5 seconds of brake torquing, of course an upgraded trans cooler is helpful, but it is only a 6X6 inch reservoir. It will take a long time for it to relieve the transmission of all that immense heat that builds. HEAT HEAT HEAT!!!!! Heat is the devil.....


No longer than 5 seconds of brake torquing (as soon as your boost meter is pegged you should let off the brake) and if you want to run back to back runs YOU MUST give the car 5 minutes in neutral to evacuate the heat. Car must be running and in neutral, not park. It keeps the tranny fluid passing through your cooler, better dissapation (not sure if the tranny fluid is moving in park). But if you do not plan back to back runs then cool down is not as imperative, just continue driving casually and do not plan on brake torquing again for a while.


Don't be fraid to get on your auto, just be aware of what is going on and what exactly it is that your doing. If you do a little research you will start to grasp how much heat actually accumulates when 210 lbs of torque is pressing directly on the steel walls of your torque converter. A 55 dollar tranny temp guage is worth it's weight in gold.


Hope this is all accurate and helpful. BTW we have an auto trans section where we have lots of technical help on these matters. Come visit some time.

 

[Blazin632]

my advice..don't race it at all. a guy i use to be friends iwth bought an auto tsi talon. brake boosted to launch it..tranny went out. had another put in..he blew it within 2 weeks of launches.

 

[definitiveno]

my advice..don't race it at all. a guy i use to be friends iwth bought an auto tsi talon. brake boosted to launch it..tranny went out. had another put in..he blew it within 2 weeks of launches.

I think your giving half of the story here........




Please be more descriprive......your buddy did launches every where he went, most notable back to back launches without cool down until his trans broke and you think it's a problem with mitsubishi instead of your friend?

 

[Blazin632]

well its hard to say about the first time. he raced it quite a bit..a couple times back to back. he got it rebuilt then put on a 16g turbo about a week later...and the tranny went out again on him again not even 2 weeks later. when i asked him about it he said it was a used tranny they just swapped in..that had been inspected and said it was good. so the second time was prolly the tranny shops fault. since then last i knew he was converting to a 5-speed.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Your biggest enemy is heat. I personally never "brake boosted" for more than 10-15 seconds. Anything more and your building some serious heat and risking the tranny. I know because I've done it. I was staged at a tree for over 30 seconds because some moron screwed up and like an ipatient idiot I kept it boosted. Stock tranny didn't like that at all. You really need to invest in a higher stall converter. Also do the base A/T mods to up the life of your A/T. A larger tranny cooler is not a bad idea either. Russ Coxe runs one of the faster DSMs out there and he is AWD A/T. Last time I looked his car was about to bust 9s. Very cool guy to talk to and knows his shit. Another guy is Kiggly. He doesn't race A/T anymore but he did bust low 10s on a FWD A/T 1G.

Thigns to consider.

1. Shift kit.
2. End clutches.
3. Higher Stall.
4. IPT or LEVEL 10 tranny upgrade.
5. Larger tranny cooler.

Good luck man.

 

[Zexell]

Brake boosting is perfectly fine. Our stock stall is only at most 3k, 3.5k. Just give your tranny time to cool off, and dont nuetral drop, ever.

 

[wannabeedsm]

so u telling me most of u guys with auto's launch at idle
if this is true, my bad.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Brake boosting is the only real way to launch an A/T DSM effectively. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know much about A/Ts. I had over 150 passes on my Level 10 with not a single failure with the car. On another note you stock A/T DSM tranny should be good for 300-350hp depending on how well you take care of it. Add the upgrades and your good to go.

 

[ACKERSON]

Yeah 4000 seems kinda low for a launch. I usually bring it up to about 5500.

 

[gsxtacy]

I also use the slip-dump method at or around 5000-5500.

Works like a charm.

Watch that ShepardRacing video a few times and you'll understand.

Its crazy how "slip-dump" can't explain itself, Rev up to 5000 then you just sorta let out the clutch a little to initiate movement, floor the throttle, and let the clutch out completely.

One you get the launch down, you gotta be ready to grab second.

When I launch.....it happens so fast. Seems like as soon as I step off the clutch, I am right back on it for the 1-2 shift. 5000-7200 comes in a hurry.

gsxtacy

 

[gurrmanator]

I had my new AWD Talon to the track for the first time this weekend and had quite a few difficulties with bogging my launch. I have been racing a FWD DSM at the track for the last two years and all of my FWD habbits are killing my AWD launch. (just not used to all this traction) I have read all of of the AWD launch threads and tried to firmly slip my clutch at about 4000 rpm. I think my problem is that I am not getting into the throttle hard soon enough while letting the clutch out. I am really disapointed with the times because after the bogging launch the car absolutly screams down the track. So here is what I am asking:

1. Does anybody have any experience with this problem and any advice ? (not reving to 6500 and dropping the clutch please)

2. Looking at my timeslip, what is the potential of this car if I could manage a 1.9 60ft ?
Maybe a mid to low 13 sec.


Time slip

60ft 2.334 (absolutely horrible, I know)
E.T. 14.024
MPH 100.9


Car Mods
Heavily ported small 16G and ported exhaust mani
Freshly rebuilt 6 bolt
MAFT blowthrough set up
Data Logging Equipement
19 lbs boost on 100 oct fuel
02 dump and full exhaust
Spec 2 clutch
Stock Intercooler and Injectors (for now)

Thanks for any help guys.

practice...practice... I launch at 6000 and slip the clutch a little bit,its totally an art