Horribly Slow RS

[bkblazen2003]

is this kid for real??? did he just tell doug to go do some reading??? ya he knows nothing ... whoa whoa whoa, wait a minute, why is his name in red, and why is his title N/T wiseman... jee i dunno thats weird

if you dont want anyone to do what you suggest, then dont suggest anything. if you dont know anything about the 420a then dont say anything about the 420a.

how is he offended cause he owns one? he owns a 420a. and its not 2nd gen dsm's that are known for crankwalk, its turbo dsm's, aka the 4g63, aka the same engine you have. you have a 6 bolt, which is less vulnerable to crankwalk, but still, ive never heard of one 420a that had crankwalk. you say the 7 bolts are also known for crankwalk like the 420a's are the main sufferers from it. you just need to stop talking at this time.

you said you could swap a 4g63 turbo cam into a 420a, which is what we questioned, not if you could into a NT 4g, we all knew that.

im just in aw...

ya changening my words on me. i'm basicly saying i didn't choose to bother with a 7 bolt 4g63 or a 420a. to be cost effiecient in my case, i see it like this. i may be all motor now but i know one day i will go turbo when it gets boring. if i had a 420a , it may be great n/t but if i do put a turbo on crank walk becomes a future risk or concern. same story for the 4g63 7 bolt. but with the 4g63 6bolt. i can enjoy n/t and have less of a worry of crankwalk if i ever choose to go turbo. so after reading this anyone would see it is obvious that the 6bolt is a more all around motor. so i think it's smarter in my case to invest in a engine that is more reliable as i go through more agrressive performance mods time goes on.

 

[GSGoinFast]

ya changening my words on me. i'm basicly saying i didn't choose to bother with a 7 bolt 4g63 or a 420a. to be cost effiecient in my case, i see it like this. i may be all motor now but i know one day i will go turbo when it gets boring. if i had a 420a , it may be great n/t but if i do put a turbo on crank walk becomes a future risk or concern. same story for the 4g63 7 bolt. but with the 4g63 6bolt. i can enjoy n/t and have less of a worry of crankwalk if i ever choose to go turbo. so after reading this anyone would see it is obvious that the 6bolt is a more all around motor. so i think it's smarter in my case to invest in a engine that is more reliable as i go through more agrressive performance modsas time goes on.

i still think you missed my point... how can i say this.. THE 420A DOESNT GET CRANKWALK!!! TURBO OR NO TURBO!!! its only the 4g63 that gets it

 

[bkblazen2003]

i still think you missed my point... how can i say this.. THE 420A DOESNT GET CRANKWALK!!! TURBO OR NO TURBO!!! its only the 4g63 that gets it

but why does evry one say the 2nd gen dsm are the ones that are affected the most by this problem. from what i remember they did not put the 4g63 in 2g dsm(95-99). but i got love for all dsms. (except for any one that comes with sohc)

 

[GSGoinFast]

but why does evry one say the 2nd gen dsm are the ones that are affected the most by this problem. from what i remember they did not put the 4g63 in 2g dsm(95-99). but i got love for all dsms. (except for any one that comes with sohc)

are you seriously? the turbo models have always come with the 4g63, 1g or 2g. the only ones to come with the 420a are the 2g NT which never get crankwalk.

 

[Doug99RS]

I clearly said i did not care to learn much about the 420 a. so why would anyone choose to do what i suggested. i am just typing my opinion. and every one knows 2gen dsm are known for crank walking. i think you need to do some reading. also the 4g63 7 bolt engine are known for it(which came out in 1992). your just feeling offended cause you own one. and by the way i am a talon 4g63 6 bolt n/t owner. the turbo intake cam can be swaped in to a 4g63 n/t engine . i have done it. the size of the lobes are obviously going to be bigger than the exhaust cam cause cause it has more lift. (duh thats the reason to swap it in the first place. if it were the same size as the original there would be no power gain.)

There comes a time in every wiseman's life when they must stand back and take a second look at the sitaution. After having read out the rest of this thread and thought long and hard... I have come to this conclusion.

My time is better spent eating my pizza, watching a movie, "doing some reading" and then going to bed. I leave the explanation of a "What is a DSM?", it's powertrain options and the evolution of DSM's to those with more time than I.

Oh... and just for the record... the Conquest/Starions also came with turbos and were most likely the predecessor to the DSM as we know it.

 

[NyteDSM96]

Yeah, I hate the arguing between one community. advice should be given at any time, not to turn turbo or not, but advice that could help answer a specific question. Turbo guys should not go in the n/a forums and say just turbo it and we shouldn't go in their forums and say you have a turbo so expect it to be unreliable and have crankwalk. We all just need to help each other when possible. I have owned a subaru with a turbo already and a mazda n/a and the n/a was more reliable, but the turbo did kick a$$, so they both have their ups and downs. Point is, let's enjoy what we drive regardless if it is a n/a or turbo!

did u let ur turbo on the subaru get oiled? cuz if u dont let it sit for a while so that it could get oiled, ur turbo is gonna wear out really quickly. its happenin to me as we speak i dont got time to wait for it to oil. when im in a hurry, IM IN A HURRY.

 

[realitytb]

I cant believe he told Doug to go do some reading! DOUG! Anyway, people have this crankwalking thing blown all out of proportion. Its rediculous.

Agreed. Crankwalk is a rare occasion. Every engine has their flaws, and people just like to exploit this particular one because they cant find anything else wrong with the 4G63

 

[GSGoinFast]

did u let ur turbo on the subaru get oiled? cuz if u dont let it sit for a while so that it could get oiled, ur turbo is gonna wear out really quickly. its happenin to me as we speak i dont got time to wait for it to oil. when im in a hurry, IM IN A HURRY.

where did that come from? by oiled you mean letting it idle before you shut it off? what that does is help to prevent a symptom called Coked bearing. that is when charred residue builds up in the shaft and eventually blocks new oil from getting in. that extra "oiling" also takes away heat that will create that charred residue. you only need to let it idle for 30 seconds for it to be effective. how do you know its already happeneing? and if its already happening, letting it idle now might be too little too late.

 

[Powers_Vang]

RS = Really Slow
Automatic = for the average female.

 

[dont need 8]

The Daytona came with a mitsu 3.0L v6 (not turbo) or a 2.5L (chrysler engine) with turbo (origin I do not know). But definitely not a 4g63 or mitsu engine.
D

Doug,

Looking for clarity. I had a friend in highschool that had a turbo Dodge Daytona and it was 2.2 not 2.5. Did they offer both a 2.2 and a 2.5?

 

[philipkrotch]

Doug,

Looking for clarity. I had a friend in highschool that had a turbo Dodge Daytona and it was 2.2 not 2.5. Did they offer both a 2.2 and a 2.5?

yes they did.

 

[dont need 8]

I don't think they offered the 2.5 with a turbo though.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

http://www.buschurracing.com/Conquest1.html

in buschurs conquest, isn't that the 4g rotated 90 degrees.... thats the pic i was thinking of! did they come w/ the 4g63 or is that a buschur custom job

 

[Doug99RS]

Doug,

Looking for clarity. I had a friend in highschool that had a turbo Dodge Daytona and it was 2.2 not 2.5. Did they offer both a 2.2 and a 2.5?

I asked this same question today at work. The response was that BOTH the 2.2L and 2.5L chrysler engines came with turbos in some vehicles. The engines are VERY similar in exterior characteristics so I could not tell you WHICH I was looking at witout having some badging.

I also asked about the Conquest/Starion and the response on that was "Rear Wheel Drive, 2.6L Turbo" was one (most likely) possible engine. There was also an association with it having had a "Makuni" (sp) carburetor on it which I have heard nothing but horror stories about. I don't know what was so bad about them but that is the reputation from the all the techs I've ever worked with in the last 6 years.

Powers Vang: Perhaps you should try an auto RS. You seem to have trouble keeping a spyder on the road.

Oh... and . That makes it ok to make stupid comments, right???

 

[dont need 8]

I asked this same question today at work. The response was that BOTH the 2.2L and 2.5L chrysler engines came with turbos in some vehicles. The engines are VERY similar in exterior characteristics so I could not tell you WHICH I was looking at witout having some badging.

Ahh, I thought you were referring strictly to the Daytona Turbo, which only had a 2.2 turbo offered, but wait....

after further internet digging, the Daytona R/T w/ automatic tranny had the high torque 2.5 turbo.

For those who enjoy history: http://www.allpar.com/mopar.html

 

[NyteDSM96]

where did that come from? by oiled you mean letting it idle before you shut it off? what that does is help to prevent a symptom called Coked bearing. that is when charred residue builds up in the shaft and eventually blocks new oil from getting in. that extra "oiling" also takes away heat that will create that charred residue. you only need to let it idle for 30 seconds for it to be effective. how do you know its already happeneing? and if its already happening, letting it idle now might be too little too late.

no man, by oiling i mean that you let ur turbo car sit in idle before you head out. in other words, its the same thing as lettin ur engine heat up a lil bit (till the thermostat starts to move, like some manuals indicate). however, oiling is when the turbo receives adequate amounts of oil so that it could operate smoothly. without this process, the turbo could start to wear quickly.

 

[GSGoinFast]

no man, by oiling i mean that you let ur turbo car sit in idle before you head out. in other words, its the same thing as lettin ur engine heat up a lil bit (till the thermostat starts to move, like some manuals indicate). however, oiling is when the turbo receives adequate amounts of oil so that it could operate smoothly. without this process, the turbo could start to wear quickly.

you actually dont need to do that for that long. turbos dont really need that much oil to run smoothly.

 

[Doug99RS]

If the lifters quit ticking... everything's got oil.

However, EVERY car needs to sit there and run to come up to operating temperature. I can't remember what movie there was but some car had an alert system inside it that kept reminding the driver that "Jack Rabbit starts are bad for fuel economy!" among other things.

But I still don't see how that has anything to do with the topic at hand. Could you please refrain from hijacking this thread?

 

[NyteDSM96]

you actually dont need to do that for that long. turbos dont really need that much oil to run smoothly.

a minute to two should cut it.

 

[NyteDSM96]

If the lifters quit ticking... everything's got oil.

However, EVERY car needs to sit there and run to come up to operating temperature. I can't remember what movie there was but some car had an alert system inside it that kept reminding the driver that "Jack Rabbit starts are bad for fuel economy!" among other things.

But I still don't see how that has anything to do with the topic at hand. Could you please refrain from hijacking this thread?

adgators99 talked about how his turbo wasnt reliable.

 

[nairb_sd]

Hey if it makes any feel better i raced my friends 3kgt and we we're pretty much even off the start and i smoked his ass around 40 mph. intake and exhaust all i got. almost bone stock rs, light like a feather. his was a non turbo so you could imagine the weight it was carrying. BUT i have like 112k miles and he had like 80k miles, plus i was about 2000 miles over my oil change. i'm guud.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Automatic transmissions are made for grandma and soccer moms, not for racing. If you really want to go fast, try a neutral drop, I hear it does wonders for the transmission, I mean 0-60 time. At least you bought a dsm. If you want to talk slow 0-60 times drive up to altitude with me and try to do it in under 9 seconds, you practically have to have a turbo to have a chance at having a fast car. Anyways sell it and get anything manual if you are going to get serious about racing

Neutral drop? Yeah, nice way to kill the transmission you idiot. As for autos and racing, comments like yours are what I like to hear before I race someone with a stick -- all the more better to rub it in afterwards.

This doesn't apply much to you N/T guys but if you have an auto fully race built, with high stall torque converter, plus shift kit, so that the tranny can harness some real power after modding, autos have several advantages over manuals:

1. Longer gearing
2. Brake/torque for boost off the line
3. Consistency (no missed shifts)
4. FAST shifting and no loss of boost in between gears
5. Convenience (my favorite now that I'm older)

The bad:

1. Fuel economy
2. Loss of power thanks to hydraulics rather than mechanical
3. You can't impress the 15 yr old girls that you can drive a stick

So if you're willing to spend the $2000+ for the built auto and are willing to mod for another 30 whp to make up for the hydraulic power loss, you'll whoop 5-speed guys in no time.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Neutral drop? Yeah, nice way to kill the transmission you idiot. As for autos and racing, comments like yours are what I like to hear before I race someone with a stick -- all the more better to rub it in afterwards.

This doesn't apply much to you N/T guys but if you have an auto fully race built, with high stall torque converter, plus shift kit, so that the tranny can harness some real power after modding, autos have several advantages over manuals:

1. Longer gearing
2. Brake/torque for boost off the line
3. Consistency (no missed shifts)
4. FAST shifting and no loss of boost in between gears
5. Convenience (my favorite now that I'm older)

The bad:

1. Fuel economy
2. Loss of power thanks to hydraulics rather than mechanical
3. You can't impress the 15 yr old girls that you can drive a stick

So if you're willing to spend the $2000+ for the built auto and are willing to mod for another 30 whp to make up for the hydraulic power loss, you'll whoop 5-speed guys in no time.

first off i think he was being sarcastic about the neutral drop, thats why he said "it will do wonders for your transmission." second, do you even think its worth it to put in aall that money just to get as fast as a manual is stock? plus what fun is it driving an automatic?

 

[cuttheduck]

first off i think he was being sarcastic about the neutral drop, thats why he said "it will do wonders for your transmission." second, do you even think its worth it to put in aall that money just to get as fast as a manual is stock? plus what fun is it driving an automatic?

You don't need to spend $2000 on an auto. Its stronger then the 5 speed easily. Thats balls to the wall fully built, compare it to buying a shep tranny.

A tranny cooler and shift kit are a good idea. That along w/ endclutches are a good idea and will stand up to 12-13 seconds no probelm. Still less much less $$$ then replacing your clutch which the 5 speed guys have to do at that point anyway.
Probaly even lower is possible w/ the above though a tourque convertor would come into play for the 11 second and under club. The only cars that really suck w/ a auto are low, tourque high reving 4 cylinders like celica gts or the rotary RX-8.
Many of the ls1 crowd and other "bigblock track whores" love the auto.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yes, vettes usually come with great autos. It all depends on the quality of what you get from the factory.

first off i think he was being sarcastic about the neutral drop, thats why he said "it will do wonders for your transmission." second, do you even think its worth it to put in aall that money just to get as fast as a manual is stock? plus what fun is it driving an automatic?

The problem is that Mitsu's greatest weak point has always been trannys. They're simply garbage, and that includes m/t. In most mid to low-level sports cars the stock autos are also pretty lousy and have two problems: 1) loss of significant power 2) can't hold additional power when modded. That's why when you read a new car review and they compare the auto to the manual, they'll show the auto as losing like 10 or 15 crank hp and a couple 1/10's slower in 0-60. Mind you, this is done by professional drivers who can shift perfect damn near every time.

However, some high end sports cars like vettes, supras, and 300ZX TT, porsche, are known to come with powerful built autos straight from the factory that are made to harness the 300+ hp of those cars. Those auto sports cars often can whoop a manual stock vs stock. In fact, one year the Supra came only with auto tranny.

Hell yes it's worth building a race auto in a DSM. The longer gearing let's me stay in my torque band longer than a m/t and the shifting is flawless. It's superior to the manual because it is stronger, damn near impervious to crankwalk, and will outshift a m/t every time. It's just too bad the stock one didn't come built already, but what do you expect out of a sub-25k sports car that only pushes like 160 whp in its highest trim?

As for fun...I used to have a m/t GSX. Since I'm daily driving 99% if the time, my auto is much more fun. Regular stock a/t cars aren't too much fun, but a fast modded a/t sports car is lots of fun and more convenient. I enjoy the luxury an auto provides.