Holset turbo without BEP Housing?

[cl1ckclack]

Yes, unfortunately some hx40s come with ridiculous 20 (maybe even 22cm IIRC) cm housings. The best hx40 housing would be either the 16cm2 or 18cm2 off older ones or a bep T3/t4 housing. You won't get much out of the batmowheel without a decent sized turbine housing.

im fully aware of that. planning on going with the smallest t3 housing i can use, while maxing out the compressor. my apologies, i have done zero research on the HX35s, as i have no benefit from going with one. i guess they are totally different when it comes to exhaust housing sized.

 

[Tiki2777]

im fully aware of that. planning on going with the smallest t3 housing i can use, while maxing out the compressor. my apologies, i have done zero research on the HX35s, as i have no benefit from going with one. i guess they are totally different when it comes to exhaust housing sized.

Not a big deal, no offense taken, but a twin scroll housing and manifold would be perfect for your setup since your going all out.

 

[cl1ckclack]

Not a big deal, no offense taken, but a twin scroll housing and manifold would be perfect for your setup since your going all out.

i considered a twin scroll... but the car is my DD, and savings of running a t3 setup unfortunately much outweigh the cost of a proper twinscroll setup.

 

[onefast2gdsm]

i would have to venture out and say that your wrong on that one... theres a reason a majority of people go with the BEP housings. its been proven that they are enough the max out the compressor, meaning that using a bigger housing, would give you not flow gains. the twin scroll will help. but still take for ever. for anyone interested. there is an ad in the freelancers for someone who makes exhaust housings for the holsets. and yes, he has a t4 twin scroll that is much more user friendly for us.

Bep housings DO NOT max out a hx35w 7 blade. I am goin to be running my hx35w on the stock holset twin scroll housing. I know a few people running stock holset housings with no problems.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm not fully aware that I understand the point of this thread whatsoever. Does the O.P. really feel that everyone using a Holset on a DSM right now is using a Bullseye turbine housing?

I mean I'd love to offer some input to the steaming piles of misinformation that has been brought up so far...but I honestly don't know where to start.

 

[Tiki2777]

I'm not fully aware that I understand the point of this thread whatsoever. Does the O.P. really feel that everyone using a Holset on a DSM right now is using a Bullseye turbine housing?

I mean I'd love to offer some input to the steaming piles of misinformation that has been brought up so far...but I honestly don't know where to start.

Anything you know would help him.

 

[JusMX141]

im fully aware of that. planning on going with the smallest t3 housing i can use, while maxing out the compressor.

In a prior life, that was the T3 .55 BEP housing. The current HX40 max HP record holder is using this housing. I have a brand new one, but you're not getting it.

Nowadays that would be the Bullseye Power .70 T3 housing. It's $220 brand new, which is cheaper than you can buy a new Garrett .63 housing and have it machined.

 

[Tiki2777]

In a prior life, that was the T3 .55 BEP housing. The current HX40 max HP record holder is using this housing. I have a brand new one, but you're not getting it.

Nowadays that would be the Bullseye Power .70 T3 housing. It's $220 brand new, which is cheaper than you can buy a new Garrett .63 housing and have it machined.

What's the spool time like on the t3 .55 compared to the .70

 

[JusMX141]

No idea- they've been off the market since 2007. You'd have to find an actual user and ask them what their spool is like- Badman21 has a built 2.3, so his spool numbers are going to be way off compared to a stock 2.0.

 

[JusMX141]

Here goes.

Has anyone tried running any trim of the holset turbo without the Bullseye housing?
Not something i plan on trying, i was just wondering how much the flow rate would be effected.

Lots of people. Like, lots.

i wouldnt imagine the flow rate would be effected much... but the spool up would be absolutely terrible.

If you're using a twin-scroll manifold the spool would be superior to any other housing setup on the market. This has been proven by Peepers and a handful of other users.

If you're using a single-scroll manifold with a twin-scroll turbine housing....lag-city.

Define terrible. I Havnt seen any sort of info on this subject.

You missed these?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/192083-holset-turbos-part-2-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html

based on the size of the exhaust housing... and the fact that they are made to be spool up on a big displacement diesel... i couldnt even imagine how bad they would be.

This is how poor assumptions begin. The latest non-VGT Holsets used on Dodge trucks came with a 9cm single-scroll turbine housing. Yep, 9cm.

Obviously it's going to work totally different than the same turbo with a 22cm housing, so you can't really make a blanket statement like you made above.

I'd imagine the twin scroll whoops all over the bolt on housing in spool up and over all flow.

You would be totally correct in your assumption.

Ironically, the Evo X's factory 152G6 turbo comes with a 12cm twin scroll turbine housing which outspools and nearly outflows the MHI Evo III 16G with a single-scroll 7cm housing on our cars. See a pattern?

i would have to venture out and say that your wrong on that one... theres a reason a majority of people go with the BEP housings. its been proven that they are enough the max out the compressor, meaning that using a bigger housing, would give you not flow gains. the twin scroll will help. but still take for ever. for anyone interested. there is an ad in the freelancers for someone who makes exhaust housings for the holsets. and yes, he has a t4 twin scroll that is much more user friendly for us.

....and I'd have to venture and say you've brought an electric shaver to a sword fight.

Twin Scroll HX35 Response and Street Manners - YouTube

^ Enough flow to max out the HX35 7-blade compressor while outspooling the same turbo in a DSM bolt-on housing.

if the factory housing is better, and efficient, then why dont you see people using it??? why do SO many people use other housings?

Because nobody is funded well-enough to run the factory housings as they're intended. You'd need a $800 manifold and two $300 wastegates to properly set one of these housings up. That offsets the price of a $350 HX35 by a small amount.

Yes, unfortunately some hx40s come with ridiculous 20 (maybe even 22cm IIRC) cm housings. The best hx40 housing would be either the 16cm2 or 18cm2 off older ones or a bep T3/t4 housing. You won't get much out of the batmowheel without a decent sized turbine housing.

The best factory HX35 housing to use would be 12, 14, or 16cm depending how much turbine flow you're seeking.

The best factory HX40 to use would be the 17cm T4 IF you're set up for a twin-scroll T4 turbo. The twin-scroll T3 16cm HX40 housing spools about the same as a .70 Bullseye housing and requires a complete reconfiguration of the manifold where the BEP T3 housing can be used on any single-scroll T3 manifold.

 

[Tiki2777]

Here goes.

And we have a winner, huzzah!

 

[Nicklepage1010]

All i wanted to know was how drastic the distance was between using the BEP housing and NOT using the BEP housing. Since the search function is next to useless, i figured the next best thing was creating a new thread (Yes i googled too Go ahead and search). I belong to a few different forums and i understand the etiquette, but as soon as something starts getting cluttered with misinformation and arguments about who knows more about these turbos, chances are, im gonna split.

To sum it up: Is anyone running an HX35 without a BEP housing, and is there any cons to doing this.

Is that easier for everyone to understand?

 

[Tiki2777]

All i wanted to know was how drastic the distance was between using the BEP housing and NOT using the BEP housing. Since the search function is next to useless, i figured the next best thing was creating a new thread (Yes i googled too Go ahead and search). I belong to a few different forums and i understand the etiquette, but as soon as something starts getting cluttered with misinformation and arguments about who knows more about these turbos, chances are, im gonna split.

To sum it up: Is anyone running an HX35 without a BEP housing, and is there any cons to doing this.

Is that easier for everyone to understand?

Yes as a said before, you either get shit spool with a single scroll mani on a twin scroll turbine, or spend shit tons of money on a true ts manifold, or make your own manifold.

 

[punxnotdead185]

Well just so everyone can be properly informed I'll update this post in a few days when I get my 12cm wh1c on my car and retuned on a single scroll mani and let everyone know how it spools, I did a lot of research on a lot of other forums also before I chose this setup and found numerous times people running these turbos with a divided housing on a twin scroll mani and only gaining 500rpm in spool time over a single scroll.

 

[Nicklepage1010]

Yes as a said before, you either get shit spool with a single scroll mani on a twin scroll turbine, or spend shit tons of money on a true ts manifold, or make your own manifold.

Thats all i wanted to know

/thread

 

[Tiki2777]

If one was seeking a 7 blade hx35 twin scroll setup, what turbine would be most advisable? Which turbine comes on the 7 blade stock? I though that the 12 was more than enough for maxing the 7 (60lbs/min) ? Thanks

 

[JusMX141]

Since the search function is next to useless

Explain.

I see this being said but I still fail to understand how it works flawlessly for me and leads everyone else to a dead end.

To sum it up: Is anyone running an HX35 without a BEP housing, and is there any cons to doing this.

Start here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

....and PM users who have done what you're seeking. It's much easier than creating a thread where a bunch of "I heard..." bullshit comes into play, then waiting for good information to come along.

 

[Nicklepage1010]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html
.

That answers everything.
thanks justin

 

[airmail96]

I can attest to the cost of getting to the ts T4 setup, it cost me a pretty penny to get my whole setup because you have to get the gates, manifold, and a custom dp. As Justin said that is why most go for the bep housing. After everything that I have read the spool on the HX-40 with the 18cm2 ts housing and ts manifold should be around 4500 rpm maybe a little earlier and should be able to let this turbo flow like a MAD man. I don't have my own data yet, but have been looking around.

 

[bastarddsm]

Full t3 twin scroll is far from terrible... That statement couldn't be more wrong. Dont make idiotic speculations. Look at the member mr. Peepers for a good example on non beep setup. Twin scroll destroys the bep housing.
Flow is greatly increased from Bolton bep to t3 divided.

I don't know that I believe either of those statements. I have run a t/s HX35 and it wasn't as fast spooling as claimed. And it certainly did not flow as well as a my open t3 12cm setup did.

Neither of them worked anywhere near as good as my HY35 works.

But then again, I've run several HX35 setups, what do I know.

 

[JusMX141]

I can attest to the cost of getting to the ts T4 setup, it cost me a pretty penny to get my whole setup because you have to get the gates, manifold, and a custom dp. As Justin said that is why most go for the bep housing.

I think people get caught up in the availability of housing choices and forget the key thing which is....

The BEP DSM bolt-on housing is designed to allow a HX35 or HX40 to bolt up to our manifolds and use our o2 housings.....and that is all. It doesn't mean it's the absolute best housing you can buy to make the turbo perform- it's strictly for convenience.

 

[jrohner]

I once had a bolton housing on my 2G (2.0L w/ K272 cams), and switching to an open cheapo manifold & Holset stock 12cm twin scroll housing made it spool a few hundred RPMs slower. If you can get a somewhat decent T3 manifold (even an open single scroll one), forget wasting money on a BEP bolton housing.


-----------
Stock twin scroll 12cm HX35 on a stock 2.4 4g64. Breaks 20psi at about 3000 in 3rd. I just made the manifold about a week ago. Before we had an ebay open T3 crackifold on it. He's still running the stock SMIC and has about the dopiest piping ever from the turbo to the intercooler.
3rd gear pull - 2G DSM, HX35 - YouTube

When I do one for my car, I'm NOT doing a single wastegate -- what a waste of time, I spent all afternoon getting it setup and keeping it divided all the way up to the wastegate valve.

 

[punxnotdead185]

This has alot of the info that has been asked also
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html
Specifically

The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold.

 

[punxnotdead185]

As promised here is the proof that HX35s are not laggy, I got my car running finally with an 8 blade hx35 and a single scroll eBay manifold and with stock cams in the higher gears I can hit a full 30lbs usually right at 3800-4000, starts boosting at like 3400-3500, so a single scroll mani on a 12cm twin scroll hx is not that laggy for a proven 500+awhp setup

 

[bastarddsm]

I think your numbers are a bit optimistic.....my hy35 isn't that good.