2G HKS 272s Do I need to run aftermarket springs?

[Yoshida445]

I plan on putting some cams on my 2g, maybe something like HKS 272s but im not sure if i need to run aftermarket springs or if i can use the OEM ones

 

[BTKai]

i remember running those back in the days and never had to upgrade anything valve train wise, now if you wanna do a budget upgrade,get yourself some stock evo 8/9 springs

 

[92AWDHX40]

oem will work i used them with my old hks 272

 

[Yoshida445]

i remember running those back in the days and never had to upgrade anything valve train wise, now if you wanna do a budget upgrade,get yourself some stock evo 8/9 springs

Okay thanks the evo 8/9 springs are the springs and the caps as well?

oem will work i used them with my old hks 272

Okay thanks

i remember running those back in the days and never had to upgrade anything valve train wise, now if you wanna do a budget upgrade,get yourself some stock evo 8/9 springs

I can use stock rocker arms as well?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yep

 

[Yoshida445]

I can use stock rocker arms as well?

Do you need to get the car tuned after you install them or they don’t need to be tuned? Once the go in they are good?

oem will work i used them with my old hks 272

What cams would be good HKS or BC. And if i got the HKS are they the ones for the evo?

oem will work i used them with my old hks 272

What HKS 272 did you run? The ones that can be used in the evo 8/9?

 

[curt-s]

Another Q is how old are the springs that you have right now and how many km? That might be a factor in their ability to shut a valve fast enough. They do wear out.. eventually... or, at least, become less effective and may present a valve float issue at high rpm if that's a concern.

You'll need to adjust your tune as you'll be getting a different volume of air in the cylinder. You also may need to degree them.

 

[Yoshida445]

Another Q is how old are the springs that you have right now and how many km? That might be a factor in their ability to shut a valve fast enough. They do wear out.. eventually... or, at least, become less effective and may present a valve float issue at high rpm if that's a concern.

You'll need to adjust your tune as you'll be getting a different volume of air in the cylinder. You also may need to degree them.

Ohh okay im not sure how old the springs are. But i know they are old since the car has been sitting for a couple years.

 

[curt-s]

If you don't intend on ever winding out your engine to 7k rpm and higher, stock springs should be ok but right on the cusp. However, if they've got some good amount of mileage on them or you just have no idea of their history (they themselves could have been swapped in by a previous owner and came from a 150k mile head), I'd look into replacing them. You don't need to go super high end.. as mentioned, if you can find some evo 8/9 springs, those are an excellent alternative.

Otherwise, BCs are good, but if I were to do it again, I'd go Kiggly personally.

Ti retainers will lighten the load on the valvetrain a little bit but unless they're part of a cheap deal, they're not necessary.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Evo 8

 

[Yoshida445]

Evo 8

Okay thanks

If you don't intend on ever winding out your engine to 7k rpm and higher, stock springs should be ok but right on the cusp. However, if they've got some good amount of mileage on them or you just have no idea of their history (they themselves could have been swapped in by a previous owner and came from a 150k mile head), I'd look into replacing them. You don't need to go super high end.. as mentioned, if you can find some evo 8/9 springs, those are an excellent alternative.

Otherwise, BCs are good, but if I were to do it again, I'd go Kiggly personally.

Ti retainers will lighten the load on the valvetrain a little bit but unless they're part of a cheap deal, they're not necessary.

Okay thank you

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I experienced valve float with BC 272’s on stock springs when many have not. Wasn’t an issue on a 16g when I wasn’t reving past 7k like mentioned above but showed when I switched to a bigger turbo and wanted to rev higher, and as mentioned above im sure that came from fatigue with age. The reason you’re not seeing HKS offered for a dsm is they’re no longer in production, you’d need to source a used set as it’s not worth the headache to make the evo 8 ones work correctly.

 

[Yoshida445]

I experienced valve float with BC 272’s on stock springs when many have not. Wasn’t an issue on a 16g when I wasn’t reving past 7k like mentioned above but showed when I switched to a bigger turbo and wanted to rev higher, and as mentioned above im sure that came from fatigue with age. The reason you’re not seeing HKS offered for a dsm is they’re no longer in production, you’d need to source a used set as it’s not worth the headache to make the evo 8 ones work correctly.

Ohh okay, so just upgrade the spring to run BC or just go with stock evo 8 spring

 

[enriquez2000]

My opinion is swap them to kiggly springs while your timing belts off anyway.

May not need them but kiggly himself told me once you rev past 7500 with a decent turbo you risk valve float without good springs.

Maybe you never plan to get there but like all of us you will want more once you have a little.

 

[Yoshida445]

My opinion is swap them to kiggly springs while your timing belts off anyway.

May not need them but kiggly himself told me once you rev past 7500 with a decent turbo you risk valve float without good springs.

Maybe you never plan to get there but like all of us you will want more once you have a little.

Yeah i was probably going to go with the BC valve springs. And yea thats true theres always more room for improvement

 

[Stapl3]

I have HKS cams in all my cars. Couple of them I used Evo8 springs, others are stock. The Evo guys say the springs are good to 8800rpm, I put my revlimiter at 8500. Never an issue. There's no tuning needed, just put then in. Mine idle like stock.

 

[curt-s]

But if replacement cams have a longer duration and/or higher lift, that equates to more air per cylinder intake stroke. I'm not trying to be condescending but some may not know

OP doesn't have a profile so I have no idea if they're mass air or speed density.

A MAF may be able to work with this, although its accuracy is suspect without even a minor fuel adjustment in certain RPM ranges, but SD would go lean. Even if I were to change overlap by degreeing stock cams, I'd have to alter my VE table due to different scavenging effect and result. That's also affected by different lobe profiles.

If I didn't have to modify my fuel after putting new cams in, then the air supplied to the cylinder hasn't changed and the mod effectively did nothing.

 

[Yoshida445]

I have HKS cams in all my cars. Couple of them I used Evo8 springs, others are stock. The Evo guys say the springs are good to 8800rpm, I put my revlimiter at 8500. Never an issue. There's no tuning needed, just put then in. Mine idle like stock.

Ohh is that the same with BC cams that just put in and don’t need to tune it?

 

[Stapl3]

Ohh is that the same with BC cams that just put in and don’t need to tune it?

I am only familiar with HKS cams. They are the only ones I'm comfortable dropping in without degreeing.

 

[curt-s]

Ohh is that the same with BC cams that just put in and don’t need to tune it?

"Tuning" for cams involves degreeing (if required), changes to fueling and ignition timing.

Many use the term "drop-in" as in they don't need to be degreed. It sounds like you're potentially able to "drop-in" HKS cams straight up but you'll still need to do the latter two things to get the best out of them.

 

[Yoshida445]

I am only familiar with HKS cams. They are the only ones I'm comfortable dropping in without degreeing.

Oh okay thanks

 

[Yoshida445]

"Tuning" for cams involves degreeing (if required), changes to fueling and ignition timing.

Many use the term "drop-in" as in they don't need to be degreed. It sounds like you're potentially able to "drop-in" HKS cams straight up but you'll still need to do the latter two things to get the best out of them.

Is that for HKS only or BC as well?

 

[CrackedDSM]

"Tuning" for cams involves degreeing (if required), changes to fueling and ignition timing.

Many use the term "drop-in" as in they don't need to be degreed. It sounds like you're potentially able to "drop-in" HKS cams straight up but you'll still need to do the latter two things to get the best out of them.

There was a big cam dyno thing a long time ago where they had a few cams, and they did two dynos with each. One with degreeing and one without, and HKS was one of the only ones tested that saw almost no benefit to degreeing. Both in power/torque and in the powerband itself. It was pretty awesome but it’s been a long time.


I think the other cams that were good were the comp 101200’s but don’t quote me. Can’t remember for sure.

 

[Yoshida445]

There was a big cam dyno thing a long time ago where they had a few cams, and they did two dynos with each. One with degreeing and one without, and HKS was one of the only ones tested that saw almost no benefit to degreeing. Both in power/torque and in the powerband itself. It was pretty awesome but it’s been a long time.


I think the other cams that were good were the comp 101200’s but don’t quote me. Can’t remember for sure.

Oh okay because I want to install cams on my DSM but don’t want to upgrade the springs but seems like im going to have to either way since they are probably old. Might just end up going with a stage 2 BC cams that just drop in and figure out what springs to use with the BC cams

 

[curt-s]

You may or may not have to, it's a tough call with springs. 272s are right at the general limit and while it sucks because it's harder to replace them while the head is still on, there are tricks to do so. If that's not an issue then I just wouldn't risk stock springs with 272 ramp rates personally.