HELP P.LZ 92Tsi AWD WOn't Start

[93talonfreak]

OK here it goes,, I bought this car that they told me had a bad water pump!! it has been in there garage for the last 2 years!! And i said ok but the car would not start i figured it was the bad smelling gas that was in the car!! So i bought it and towed it home!!

I drained the gas and put 10 gallons of freash gas in it!! Still won't start! So ok i started to check things i put brand new wires and plugs and coil on it!! and i have great spark!!
I check the timming and it's not off at all!
It's getting gas in the chambers, but it's not lightsing the gas

I pulled the fule rail out and it is sparying gas out of the injectors up to like 8 feet so there clean!! I pulled the intake tube off and it sucking air in!! and i put my hand in front of the muffler and it blowing out!! But the car just keep cranking and not fireing!! so took the plugs out and sparyed then with starter fluid and sparyed some into the holes and put them back in and it tryed to start once it like sputterd and then it stoped and it would do it again!!

### help 92 talon awd a/t!

umm it is missing the idel screw but someone put a bolt in the hole with silcone!! i tryed to get out of another car and i can't get it to back out all the way!!

 

[femmeDSM]

First off, here is your BISS replacement: http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=3754&

It's got fuel, it's got spark, so have you checked compression? You bought it with a "bad" water pump, did you replace that?

Assuming everything else you said is *all* you have done to the car so far, here are a few things you should check. By all means not a complete list, but this should get you on your way:

- Are your plug wires going to the correct plugs?

- Check the ECU caps for leakage.

- Check CAS to make sure it is functioning, and not 180 degrees out. (You said your timing is lining up, though, but I would still check this).

- Check all ignition electrical components

- Test Coolant Temp Sensor

- When you crank the engine, I assume that the cam gears are moving, and are not seized. Have you pulled the upper timing belt cover and made sure timing did not jump, or the belt didn't skip teeth?

- I would not try to crank the engine much without checking compression first, if you have not done so already.

----

There are other things that are escaping me at the moment, but I'm sure others will chime in with what I've missed.

Check these things and report back. Good job so far, you're on your way

 

[93talonfreak]

OK yes i have the top cover off the timeing!! all the marks line up!! but if it was one tooth off or if i had very little compression it will still try to fire tho!! and it's not trying to fire!~~ and if the wires were out of order it will still try to right??

Can some one send me the fireing order so i can check it!!

 

[femmeDSM]

OK yes i have the top cover off the timeing!! all the marks line up!! but if it was one tooth off or if i had very little compression it will still try to fire tho!! and it's not trying to fire!~~ and if the wires were out of order it will still try to right??

Can some one send me the fireing order so i can check it!!

Firing Order is 4-1-2-3.

And there are many, many, many things that can keep a car from starting. I just listed a few things you should check off the top of my head. Saying that a car "should" try to fire is not necessarily the case. Indeed, in many cases, cars with very serious problems will still "try to fire". But not always. Likewise, a car that has a very minor problem may act like it's dead forever and is never going to start.

Especially if you've never been able to drive the car, or even see it running, NEVER assume that *anything* is or is not wrong with the car. I learned that one the hard way. Always treat the car like you know absolutely nothing about its history or what it technicaly "should be doing", even if you think you do.

 

[93talonfreak]

You do have a good point!!! I sparyed some starter shit in the spark plug holes and put them back in and i got it to fire!!! it sputterd than i got nothing!! i'm so lost i feel like i got riped a big one on this deal!!

I would like to have someone that knows what there doing come help me !! before i just take it to a shop and waste a ton of money

your right i have never seen it run so i'm shooting in the dark about what is worng with the car!! I need to get the computer out of the car but it is so cold i have just not wanted to do anything with it!!

 

[femmeDSM]

If you were able to get the car to start with the starter fluid, that's a good enough sign -- it shows that you at least have enough compression to start the engine once we figure out what the problem is.

As far as where to look now, I would recommend starting with the fuel delivery system. Start with injectors and work your way back up the fuel line to the fuel pump. Check every component you come across -- There's not much to the fuel system ---- Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Injectors, and of course lots of actual fuel line connecting all these things.

After that, you will move on to the electrical components (ECU, MPI Relay, etc). Do you have any kind of manual to use as a guide? The Mitsu/Chrysler Factory Service Manual is great, but if you don't have it, Haynes or Chilton will suffice for general troubleshooting tasks like these.

Don't give up and take her to a mechanic yet! At the very least, this process will teach you a lot about your car

 

[93talonfreak]

The Fuel System is fine!! The pump is working the filter is new and the injectors spary about 8 foot or so!! So that works fine!

i'm getting very good spark!! i put new plugs and wires coil!! And i'm getting big blue spark! and it's in the right fire order!

i have 120 in each cylender

the timeing is right!

but the car just cranks and cranks

I tryed the little oil in each hole thing and it did not make a difference!!!

But car still won't start,, if i have spark, air and fuel,, and good compression! The car should start, i have spark b/c every thing is working, i have gas b/c every thing is working. so why won't it start!! it can't be the computer b/c i have spark and shit it should fire at least!! and it's not even fireing!

Help

 

[femmeDSM]

You do not have good compression. Factory spec is approx 165. Time to start looking internally. If oil in the cyl didn't help, you might have bent some valves. With a car that's been sitting for 2+ years, there's no telling what happened.

 

[93talonfreak]

ok well i guess i'm going to be pulling the head off i guess~~~ But i was told 120 in all was ok not great but should still be able to start!! i don't think it's thatSome thing is going on that i just can't figure out!

 

[ddavisaf]

You need three things to start. Spark, Fuel, Compression. If you can start it with ether, then your compression is good enough. Not good, just enough.

Have you tried rotating the CAS 180°?

 

[BobPell]

wow - i cant believe your post - I have the exact same problem - bought a 90 1.8l for my son from a friend. He claims it died shortly after his son got some gas. He was able to drive it home but it sat also for 2 years. I have spark and fuel BUT mine wont even sputter with starting fluid. I hope I don't have to get rid of it as it otherwise is in perfect condition. In fact I'm looking at it right now thru the window and it is just beautiful.

 

[BobPell]

You need three things to start. Spark, Fuel, Compression. If you can start it with ether, then your compression is good enough. Not good, just enough.

Have you tried rotating the CAS 180°?

What is CAS?????

 

[93talonfreak]

Yea i hope i don't have to get rid of mine!! i won't i get a motor before i do that!!!! NO i have not tryed to rotate the CAS,, but i losend the bolt and it won't move so i don't think that it has been messed with!!! But i will losen it up later and try it !!! i will have some one crank it over well i rotate it and see if it makes a difference!!!

Umm now when i crank it!! i spary starter fluid in the intake and crank it and it blows it back out the intake!!!

 

[BobPell]

I think there are a lot of smart people here and i'm sure we will both be ok. Frustrated perhaps but OK. What is CAS?

 

[i1nk83]

cam angle sensor, i reccomend pulling out the ecu and checking for caps leakage. that is a common problem with all 1g's , and 1g's that have sat for long periods of time seem to be more susceptible to leakage.

 

[93talonfreak]

Ok i under stand the caps thing!! but if i have spark and gas in the chamber and good enough compression,, then what would leeking caps have to do with it starting!! i have spark and fuel and it's not fireing! and i know the gas is good i drained the tank and put freash gas in adn new fuel filter!! i just don't get it i will check the computer right now!!

Thanks for the help!! hope i get this figured out if not i'm on the way to get a new motor!

Umm i tryed to move the cas and i can't get it to move at all i don't think that it has been messed with!!!

 

[aadperformance]

Bad Caps=No Start, all you have to do is pull the ecu and check to see if they leaked or not. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by checking. Should only take you about 10 mins to do.

 

[93talonfreak]

Really,, dang i figured if i have a fire and gas in the same place it would blow up!! But ok i'm on my way to the drive way the pull it out!

 

[93talonfreak]

OK pulled the computer and the ecu is fried!! the caos are leeking and i have a burnt board!~ so what is the best thing to do!! New ecu rebuild junkyard!!

 

[Scrubulum]

The capacitors on my 1.8l ECU fried the board and I found a place online that sold me a rebuilt one. Don't remember where it was now but just search. If you get one out the junkyard be sure to replace the capacitors in it before you us it. Better safe then a fried board.
Just FYI, when mine fried, I was driving along and the engine died and a saw some smoke from under the dash. Smells great.
Hope that helps.

 

[ddavisaf]

Good call on the ECU. That was my next step.

Talk to steve on this board. His username is...... "steve" . I can't tell you how many people on here go through him for ECU repairs, but I can tell you there's a ton of us.

 

[BobPell]

I quite don't understand - I am sure you are correct about the caps as it was just proven in 93talon..... case. But what I don't understand is why he was still getting spark with a fried board. Is this some evil joke from DSM??
After reading all this I will pull mine and I feel im in for the same thing. How much would a used board cost?

 

[femmeDSM]

Is this some evil joke from DSM??

Yes, it is. haha. Fried, or semi-fried ECUs will do all sorts of crazy things to cars. Many cars will turn over and start "fine" (I use the term "fine" loosely, however) with a bad ECU...and many will just have weird electrical problems. Usually an ECU will give you signs that it's on its way south with many parts of the car still running and operating generally OK.

How much would a used board cost?

Not too much for your N/T. Talk to Steve, though. He is the resident ECU Guru around these parts, and might be able to fix yours.
New (Used) Turbo ECUs run from $100-$250, depending on if you need/want EPROM or not. N/T ones would probably be a little less, though. Not sure.

 

[femmeDSM]

Good call on the ECU. That was my next step.

Come on, y'all, I advised him to do ALL of these things in the very first post, .

- Check the ECU caps for leakage.

- Check CAS to make sure it is functioning, and not 180 degrees out.

 

[BobPell]

YES you did!!! TYVM I award you 5 million points.