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Car won't start. ### help

Posted by ewyss, Dec 8, 2010

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  1. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

    89
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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    I am still fairly new to dsm's even though i have had my car for a year. I was in a pretty nasty crotchrocket crash so i haven't been able to work on my car for nearly 6 months and im just now getting able to again thats why im postin in newbie forum. I recently just put dsm link v3 on my car and fic 750cc injectors and now my car wont start, on dsm link it is set for 750's but i think it is because i have a stock fuel pump that it won't start does that sound right, ### before i put dsm link in the car and the injectors it would start right up with no hesitation. i need help this is my winter project to get my car into the 12's. thanks any advice on my problem would be helpful
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  2. whe3ls

    whe3ls Proven Member

    911
    4
    Joined Jun 23, 2008
    spokane, Washington
    do you have a afpr?
     
  3. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    I actually don't, my fuel system is completely stock except for the injectors. I saw this kit on ffwd and i didn't know if it would be a good idea or a waste of money and i would still have to get a fuel pump i didn't think it came with one. so would it be worth it to buy the kit and a fuel pump or just the kit, and do you think this would solve my problem of the car not starting thanks
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. gofer

    gofer Moderator

    8,065
    1,134
    Joined Feb 18, 2006
    South Gilbert, Arizona
    POST A LOG! You've got dsmlink and can share whats going on with your car publicly without explaining it. I know the car won't start but you can still connect with dsmlink and do a log of it trying to start... Be sure your logging CoolantTemp, front o2, MAFRaw, and InjOn.

    Check for spark, check for fuel at the rail, and check your timing.

    Buying a fuel pump is just going to keep you spending money and still not have a running car. You might find that your fuel pump is dead however, you won't know that until you check for fuel at the rail.

    :dsm:
     

    Street Build 19K  13  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  5. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    First of, we need more info. What is the car DOING? Does it crank? Does it try to chug over? Does it just keep spinning with no indication of it starting? How did you scale your injectors? Did you just put in "750" for your injector scaling? Because that is not how you do it.

    Even with bigger injectors the car SHOULD still start.
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  6. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    to post a log can i do it in this thread or do i have to go somewhere else to do it, i have never done that before i have 2 of them saved to my computer tho before i have the injectors installed if that helps i won't be able to get on of it trying to start until later today.

    here is the one that is before the injectors if you could just point out some stuff wrong with it from there that would be great, im gunna try to get a log on in the next hour or so of trying to start it after the injectors.
     

    Attached Files:

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    Have you adjusted anything on dsmlink yet? A log of before all this doesn't really do us anything since it ran before.
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  8. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

    89
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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    i did when i first got it a couple months back a guy that is supposed to be good at tuning helped me with some things over the phone but unfortunately that was before the injectors were installed, and on the misc tab do i need to have "activate fuel pump" on i just noticed that was off is that the problem? thanks
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    The activate fuel pump just activates the pump to make sure it's working.

    You still haven't answered the other questions. When you try to start the car what is it DOING? Also HOW did you dial in your injectors?
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  10. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

    89
    0
    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    My injectors are dialed in as 750's, thats what i was told to do, also when i start the car it cranks just fine and as good as it did before the injectors and when im trying to start it sometimes it almost chugs over and starts but it just doesn't quite make it i don't get it.

    I really need to get the car running so that i can move it to my dads shop, its in my moms driveway and she is moving in two weeks and i don't want to have to pay to get it towed, when im sure the problem isn't that big of a deal
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    You're injectors aren't dialed in for one. Whoever told you to just put 750 in was wrong. Put your stock injectors back in then try from there with your factory settings back on dsmlink. It's more than likely fuel related from your explanation of it.

    Also, why did you buy 750's if you don't have anything done to the car?
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
    Loading...
  12. gofer

    gofer Moderator

    8,065
    1,134
    Joined Feb 18, 2006
    South Gilbert, Arizona
    1. Post a log of it not starting and capture CoolantTemp, Front o2, MAFRaw, & InjOn.
    2. Check for spark at the spark plugs
    3. Check for fuel at the fuel rail
    If you do the above you won't have to worry about getting the thing towed out of your moms driveway because after doing so you'll have enough information to tell us whats going on with the car. "The car won't start..." isn't enough believe it or not but if you can tell us if your getting spark on only 2 cylinders or theres no fuel making it to the rail then we have something to go off of.

    You don't type 750cc injectors into anywhere on dsmlink, you type the global changes you'd make for 750's though. To figure out your global settings you've got to do some math. The stock injectors are 450cc and your new injectors are 750cc so you need to find the difference in flow and then subtract 1.
    (450 / 750) - 1 = -40%​
    ^^^ THESE ARE YOUR NEW GLOBAL FUEL SETTINGS THAT YOU CHANGE IN THE FUEL TAB ^^^

    :dsm:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

    Street Build 19K  13  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

    89
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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    i got them for free when i bought my 20g turbo and ss open 02 dump. so i figured they would be fine, is there any way you can go over my log and make changes to it for and i can put the stock injectors back in it just to get the car moved for now

    how do i check for spark, how to i check for fuel at the rail, and what tab are those settings on to turn them on. I literally don't know anything about dsm link and i don't know much about dsm's yet, sorry i feel like a pain in the ass because i don't know what im doing LOL
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    Checking for spark you can take a screw driver- put it in the spark plug wire and touch/hold the metal screwdriver to somewhere on the car. Have a friend crank and see if it sparks.

    For fuel pull the return line off the FPR. Hit the "activate fuel pump" on dsmlink and see if fuel comes out.
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
    Loading...
  15. gofer

    gofer Moderator

    8,065
    1,134
    Joined Feb 18, 2006
    South Gilbert, Arizona
    The SEARCH button on here will set you free big guy. Believe it or not you don't own the only DSM that has never been able to start after a fuel injector install. These cars have been around since 1989...

    Since your new I'll let it slide and explain everything, next time though use that search button up top. ;)

    CHECK THE ECU
    When you turn the ignition key to the "ON" position does the CEL stay illuminated for 5 seconds and then disappear? If the answer is yes then you can eliminate the ECU as being the culprit (for now) and move onto checking the spark.

    CHECKING SPARK
    There are a few ways to check spark but I remove a plug, connect the plug wire back up to it and lay the plug across a good grounding point. Then, while someone else cranks the car, watch the gap between the electrodes and confirm that you're seeing an electrical arc across this gap. If you get a good spark on all (4) spark plugs and they look like they are in good shape then you need to check your fuel delivery.

    CHECK FUEL
    You need to make sure that the fuel pump is pressurizing the fuel rail. Hopefully you have a fuel pressure gauge for this purpose. If not, you can disconnect the fuel return line from the pressure regulator and run it into a gas can or something to confirm that fuel flows out when the pump is activated.
    *IF THE MOTOR IS GETTING FUEL TO THE RAIL GAS WILL COME OUT OF THE LINE JUST CRANKING THE CAR OVER. I'd tell you to use the "activate fuel pump" option in dsmlink but its not very controlled because it doesn't kick off very fast if your spraying gas everywhere.
    If you get gas to the fuel rail you need to make sure the fuel injectors are working. I just put in ear up to them and listen for them "clicking" while the cars idling...

    :dsm:
     

    Street Build 19K  13  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    ok i changed the global fuel to what you said, is there anything else i should do.
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    Can't check the injectors for clicking when it doesn't start. ROFL
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  18. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    ok great i'll check the ecu, fuel, and spark then ill let you know what happened.
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. gofer

    gofer Moderator

    8,065
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    Joined Feb 18, 2006
    South Gilbert, Arizona
    Dare I ask where you had 750cc typed into link? If it was in the global fuel settings then its no wonder the car wouldn't start...
    Your right however, thats why I mentioned logging InjOn in dsmlink when hes trying to start it. Same difference. :p

    :dsm:
     

    Street Build 19K  13  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  20. 90dsm87

    90dsm87 Probationary Member

    6
    0
    Joined Mar 22, 2010
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Im having the same problem, with my v3 ecu, car acts like it wants to start but doesnt, however when i put in the other ecu i have the car starts right up. funny thing is i just paid 130.00 to ecm tuning to have my eprom ecu socketed and repaird and it still does the same as before i sent it off. your ecu could be bad.
     

    117  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  21. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    thats exactly what i did too i paid to have some thing fixed in it and it was socketed by MAP but no luck yet, how did you fix yours or have you yet.
     

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. 90dsm87

    90dsm87 Probationary Member

    6
    0
    Joined Mar 22, 2010
    Nashville, Tennessee
    i havent yet, becouase my maf is bad. im waitng to pruchase a new maf before i send it back off. i took it apart and everything looks new. and sometimes the car starts with the v3 ecu and sometimes it doesnt, and it takes forever to actually start. when it finally does it runs horrible till it temps up thats with both ecus. what my car does with my v3 ecu is wierd. it will accelerate fine til about 3,100 rpms right around when the boost kicks in then the car almost dies then comes back to life at around 5,500. if i floor it the boost builds up but rpms or mph doesnt change.
     

    117  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    You need an MAF? I have both a hacked and unhacked 1g MAF PM me if you're interested.

    Your horrible starting sounds like the coolant temp sensor. It's a common problem. When it's faulty it thinks that the outside temp is much colder than it really is, so it pours fuel in which floods to motor. If you put the pedal 3/4 down when cranking does it start better?
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  24. ewyss

    ewyss Proven Member

    89
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    Joined Aug 12, 2010
    Martinsville, Indiana
    Ok i checked the ecu it was fine, then i didn't get to do the other two because with the wind chill it is below 0 outside, but i don't think it is the spark plugs because they have less than 1000 miles on them. i don't know about the fuel to rail, i will get it inside the garage hopefully and have a friend help with the spark plugs and fuel rail checks.
    but here is my log of the car trying to start, it wasn't as willing to crank due to the cold temp's here the battery got worse as i tried and i only tried about 3 times and each time it didn't crank as fast. but here is the log.
     

    Attached Files:

    224  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. Tyeler18

    Tyeler18 Proven Member

    2,318
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    Joined Dec 16, 2008
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    Coolant temp sensor is faulty.
     

    Drag Race Build 948  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Road Race Build 900  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Autocross Build 1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 1K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
    Loading...

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