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Resolved Help degree kelford 272

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AWD-Tony

Proven Member
6,801
3,735
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I’m having trouble with the exhaust side.

Set the dial indicator to zero with valve closed.
At .039 (1mm) lift, it’s at 43* BBTC
Max lift center line is at 113* BTDC
Zero the dial, to get closing .039 and I’m at 79* BTDC. The card says I should be at TDC.

I did the intake side and it’s not that far off

Card vs Actual
IVO - 6* VS 7.5* BTDC
IVC - 40* VS 39.5* ABTC
Centerline - 107* VS 107.5* ATDC

.003 off each head and block. OE composite hg.

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Tony, I've degreed many a cam in my small block Chevys. "Sometimes" you just can't get it perfect so what you have is the best that you can get and I applaud you for your diligence.
FWIW, with accessibility to the gears (not like a SBC), I run mine straight up and adjust at the track or maybe in your case the dyno. I have not moved my 264s from straight up and they are SINGING.
The head I just put together, with the same cams as you have, are going in at straight up and if I can "tune" the cams for better response in a certain area, I will.
Is this in your running car? Is there something your trying to squeeze out of her?
I'm here to help if I can! :thumb:
 
I’m having trouble with the exhaust side.

Set the dial indicator to zero with valve closed.
At .039 (1mm) lift, it’s at 43* BBTC
Max lift center line is at 113* BTDC
Zero the dial, to get closing .039 and I’m at 79* BTDC. The card says I should be at TDC.

I did the intake side and it’s not that far off

Card vs Actual
IVO - 6* VS 7.5* BTDC
IVC - 40* VS 39.5* ABTC
Centerline - 107* VS 107.5* ATDC

.003 off each head and block. OE composite hg.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
Maybe I don't understand well how you are exactly doing. but if I understood correctly, you are checking a wrong 1mm point when the valve is getting closed. Sounds like you are seeing 1mm from the max lift point. If you zero the dial indicator at the Max lift point, you should move the valve .39 ~ .40 (10mm. Not 1mm) which would be the 1mm open point before the valve gets fully closed since this cam is supposed to have 11mm lift.
Or try not to zero the dial at the max lift, keep rotating the crank until the dial shows 1mm again before the valve gets fully closed and see if it would be close to the cam card.
 
I have done it wrong before, almost like H said and it throws things off. Take a break and come back to it fresh and see if they come out spot on. :thumb: :thumb:
 
Yes, Taking a break would be a good idea.
Tony @TK's9d2TSi , I think it's just a confusion. I guess you got confused when you zero'ed the dial at the max lift on exhaust side. According to what you mentioned that you got 79* BTDC as EVC at 1mm lift, that's where the green mark is. My guess is you saw the point where the valve starts closing 1mm from the max lift, instead of the point where the valve still opens 1mm before it gets fully closed (should be approx 10mm from the max lift). So it should be around TDC.

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That makes sense. I was definitely confused at first and a little frustrated because I did the intake side 5 time before I started getting readings that were close to what the cam card says. I’ll start over tomorrow. Thanks for your help guys!!
 
Time to get started, its after 7am.......:p

Hiroshi, you explain things soooo well. If we want to nominate you to be a wiseman, would you except? I am serious. I consider you one!
Marty :thumb:
 
Time to get started, its after 7am.......:p
Hiroshi, you explain things soooo well. If we want to nominate you to be a wiseman, would you except? I am serious. I consider you one!
Marty :thumb:

I’m drinking my coffee. How did you know :hmm: He seriously deserves one and he’s always super helpful
 
Time to get started, its after 7am.......:p

Hiroshi, you explain things soooo well. If we want to nominate you to be a wiseman, would you except? I am serious. I consider you one!
Marty :thumb:
I’m drinking my coffee. How did you know :hmm: He seriously deserves one and he’s always super helpful
It's a real honor to hear that. Thank you guys :)
 
Think my cams were not timed correctly partially due to the marks on the fidanza cam gears and me not paying attention so I’ve corrected that.

Seems to be 5* of tdc so I zeroed the degree wheel in between to get true tdc.

I also noticed the dial indicator would move with the contour of the spring retainer. The fix was to get as close to the edge of the retainer without it falling off. It took a few tries and once it was stationary on that spot, I rotated the crank to make sure it doesn’t wonder. Another way to check this is once you zero the dial indicator when the spring is closed, it should always return to zero after a full revolution of the cam.

I kind of cheated.
1. I didn’t change to solid lifters and test springs. I know I’ll get sh1t for this LOL
2. I adjusted the cams to get the opening correct. From there I checked centerline and closing events.

I’ve literally checked more than 10 times on each side so I think I’m good. These are the final adjustments to the cam gears.

And no, I did not use the screw driver to find tdc LOL

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Think my cams were not timed correctly partially due to the marks on the fidanza cam gears and me not paying attention so I’ve corrected that.

Seems to be 5* of tdc so I zeroed the degree wheel in between to get true tdc.

I also noticed the dial indicator would move with the contour of the spring retainer. The fix was to get as close to the edge of the retainer without it falling off. It took a few tries and once it was stationary on that spot, I rotated the crank to make sure it doesn’t wonder. Another way to check this is once you zero the dial indicator when the spring is closed, it should always return to zero after a full revolution of the cam.

I kind of cheated.
1. I didn’t change to solid lifters and test springs. I know I’ll get sh1t for this LOL
2. I adjusted the cams to get the opening correct. From there I checked centerline and closing events.

I’ve literally checked more than 10 times on each side so I think I’m good. These are the final adjustments to the cam gears.

And no, I did not use the screw driver to find tdc LOL

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Glad to know that you figured it out and found your own way :thumb:

I also noticed the dial indicator would move with the contour of the spring retainer. The fix was to get as close to the edge of the retainer without it falling off. It took a few tries and once it was stationary on that spot, I rotated the crank to make sure it doesn’t wonder. Another way to check this is once you zero the dial indicator when the spring is closed, it should always return to zero after a full revolution of the cam.
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I was gonna ask about that. This mostly happens in closing event. and I think this is one of the common causes when you see a very different number from cam card. I always do is, use a long nose "L" shape tip and locate it on retainer's tiny flat space where is just right next valve keepers and where doesn't have a contact with rocker arm.
 
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That’s a great idea Hiroshi. I used an aluminum brazing rod as the extension so not sure if I could have bent that but a coat hanger I assume would work.
Yes I think it will work. I used to make my own tip from a welding bar and bend and file to make it very thin and sharp to fit. I now use a very cheap set from Amazon like the one in the pic below and I bent it to adjust the angle. So far it's working good for me.

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