help and pointers on my fuel system

[jpmxrider489]

I need some guidence on my fuel system. Im currently saving for dsmlink. My goal is 350whp and further down the road i want 420whp. I have a small 16g. I also have a 190lph, 550s, afpr. In your opinion should i get a 255 fuel pump and bigger injectors since i have dsmlink soon? Or would 550s and a 190lph work for my goals? I was planning to sell the afpr and use that for dsmlink. But since i have it, i might as well get the 255? I know for my goal of 350whp it will work. But down the road i want more, so please give me your opinions.

Should i sell the 190lph and get a 255?
I was planning on running my 550s for awile. Should i sell them and get bigger ones?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I need some guidence on my fuel system. Im currently saving for dsmlink. My goal is 350whp and further down the road i want 420whp. I have a small 16g. I also have a 190lph, 550s, afpr. In your opinion should i get a 255 fuel pump and bigger injectors since i have dsmlink soon? Or would 550s and a 190lph work for my goals? I was planning to sell the afpr and use that for dsmlink. But since i have it, i might as well get the 255? I know for my goal of 350whp it will work. But down the road i want more, so please give me your opinions.

Should i sell the 190lph and get a 255?
I was planning on running my 550s for awile. Should i sell them and get bigger ones?

As a general rule you will need 850cc injectors for 400/450hp on pump gas. If you are considering E85 then you would need even bigger injectors. If you are using DSMlink then you can control any injectors that you want and therefore there is no such thing as "to much injector" so get the biggest you can afford (1250-1600).

Check out this fuel injector flow calculator from FIC: Fuel Injectors FLow Calculator - Fuelinjectorclinic and these threads, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/393264-x-hp-fuel-injectors.html, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/frequently-answered-dsm-questions/278098-what-size-volume-fuel-pump-do-i-need.html, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/frequently-answered-dsm-questions/277747-fuel-injector-questions.html for even more info.

Hope this helps!

 

[jpmxrider489]

It helped as far of what size injectors. Looks like i should get around 900s. So does that mean i should look into getting a walbro 255. If this was you, would you keep the 550s and 190lph and sell the afpr? Or would you sell the 550s and 190lph and get bigger injectors and a wally 255? I would love anyones opinion.

 

[Calan]

With ECMLink, I would keep the AFPR (assuming it's a decent one), buy a Wally 255, and something around 1150cc injectors (or larger). That would be all the fuel you would need in your foreseeable future. Then you could start looking at a bigger turbo to get the airflow for that power.

Anything less than that, and you're going to be right back in this thread a few months down the road asking about the next fuel upgrade.

 

[jpmxrider489]

I already have 550s and a 190. You think i should sell those and just get something larger? Or i can use them and go larger down the road.

 

[Calan]

You're not going to make 350hp with the small 16g, 190lph, and 550cc injectors. In fact, all of those 3 things are on the very edge of being able to support that power level (except maybe the 190 pump), unless you are one of the very few and very talented people who could possibly pull it off.

Here's what I would do:

With ECMLink, I would keep the AFPR (assuming it's a decent one), buy a Wally 255, and something around 1150cc injectors (or larger). That would be all the fuel you would need in your foreseeable future. Then you could start looking at a bigger turbo to get the airflow for that power.

 

[knochgoon24]

For 420whp, you'll need a bigger turbo, bigger fuel pump, and bigger injectors. So it's all going to get done eventually.

I'd just keep what you have for now, buy ECMLink, then go bigger when you get a little more cash.

 

[Calan]

For 420whp, you'll need a bigger turbo, bigger fuel pump, and bigger injectors. So it's all going to get done eventually.

I'd just keep what you have for now, buy ECMLink, then go bigger when you get a little more cash.

This ^, but only with the understanding that you lower your initial goal of 350whp for the time being.

 

[jpmxrider489]

I think im going to keep it all then buy after i get dsmlink. I know this is a very debated question, but whats the biggest injector i can run with a 190lph?

 

[Calan]

...whats the biggest injector i can run with a 190lph?

The fuel pump doesn't decide what size injectors you need; your type of fuel, tune, and ECU does.

If you have a stock ECU without a way to modify how it fires the injectors (such as a MAF-T, SAFC, ECMLink, Eprom chip, etc)...stick with stock injectors.

 

[knochgoon24]

You can run a huge injector, you just can't run it at as high of a duty cycle.
EDIT: *As long as you have a way to control an injector that large*

190 lph = 3166cc/min -> /4 = 790cc/min injectors

But as fuel pressure increases with boost, the amount of flow from the pump drops. I have 680cc injectors with a Evo 9 fuel pump (200lph). I figure that by the time I max out the injectors, I'll be wanting a larger pump anyway.

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[jpmxrider489]

Ill have dsmlink soon. So another debated question, how do you know when you need to upgrade the pump? Thanks for all the help.

 

[Calan]

Wes brings up another very good point; the flow rating of a pump (such as "190lph") means very little. The actual amount of fuel that any given pump can flow is highly dependent both on the pressure it's operating at and the voltage supply. This isn't something that is too important for you to get wrapped up in right now, but it's a good thing to remember.

It's also the reason that you'll hear everyone recommend that you rewire the fuel pump if it isn't already. Higher (and more constant) voltage to the pump translates directly to higher and more constant fuel flow.

how do you know when you need to upgrade the pump?

The car will start leaning out even though IDC's continue to increase and more fuel is commanded by the ECU, and you'll probably see fuel pressure starting to fall off more than expected if you are logging it. Or, you can run the numbers and predict it.

Once you get ECMLink and start learning, it will all come together.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Thanks alot guys. All the replies were very helpful and informative.

 

[Calan]

If you'd like to see what a PITA a failing fuel pump (or a pump that's on the edge) coupled with a partially clogged filter can be, check out this thread (lots of good info from Steve and others), and my more recent thread on it. That was nuts and not a lot of fun.

BTW - You can also download the ECMLink software for free and view people's logs... if you didn't know that.