head stud wont torque? advice needed asap!

[turbo98eclipse]

2g head, using oem head studs and head gasket.

i recently replaced the headgasket in the car about a month ago. took the car for a spin today and boosted to about 10 psi... when i came to a stop, i had massive amounts of smoke (pretty sure it was white) coming out the exhaust for about 15 seconds... checked all my IC pipes.. clean as a whistle. So i figured id go back and check the head stud torque again. All of them hold 65 lbs/tq but when i get to the 70-72 lbs mark, bolt number 8 (timing belt side, lower corner) wont torque past 65-66. im not sure if theres a spec for the 2g (it says 15lbs 1/4 turn, 1/4 turn) which is what i did, and then gave it a little extra.

is this something i should worry about? should i take out that one stud and retap it or what?

no smoke at idle or cruise ONLY this one time when i went wot to 10psi

thanx!!

 

[99gst_racer]

Are you running bolts or studs? There's no such thing as OEM studs.
Also, are they previously used or brand new?

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Are you running bolts or studs? There's no such thing as OEM studs.
Also, are they previously used or brand new?

sorry, head BOLTS. oem 12pt head style. they are/were brand new

 

[T-mun]

i dont think the smoke is due to the gasket. White smoke in the exhaust would usually point to bad valve seal or blown turbo. you will definitely still need to check on the thread of that bolt tho..

 

[turbo98eclipse]

i dont think the smoke is due to the gasket. White smoke in the exhaust would usually point to bad valve seal or blown turbo. you will definitely still need to check on the thread of that bolt tho..

i thought about it being the turbo also, which is why i checked the IC pipes for any residue, but the inside looks brand spankin new.
i also figured if it was the HG it would smoke all the time, but like i said it smoked for about 10-15 seconds and then went away... even as i drove the car more it never came back... revved the car to 4-5k and still no smoke.
only thing i could assume was that when i hit boost it pushed the head away from the block and then came my leak, but there are no "external" signs of a HG leak either, so i have no clue.
ive boosted to 10psi before... heck i even have a video on here of my ngr review where i hit 10 psi and it didnt smoke then; this is the first time

any way to check the turbo for sure? valve seals? time to do some reading

EDIT: some quick reading shows if it were the valve seals i would be smoking at idle too? keep in mind i only smoked AFTER boosting and coming to a complete stop

I think I figured out what happened:

I put everything back together and went for a spin to log some data-- went wot and watched my boost gauge. It went to about 20-21 psi!! Keep in mind I have in the stock turbo.. Went and closed the mbc all the way to negative, and went for another drive. 20psi again. It worked fine the other day and now either the mbc isn't working or the wastegate is stuck

I'm assuming the smoke is from overboosting and oil bursting past the seals? I have no clue how high the boost went earlier but I'll assume it was 20+

I'm going to search how to test WG operation and I'll report back prob tomorrow. Feel free to leave me any tips!

 

[eclipsalon]

i dont think it would hurt if u checked your compression jus to make sure the piston rings arent bad

 

[rlacasse1]

i dont think the smoke is due to the gasket. White smoke in the exhaust would usually point to bad valve seal or blown turbo. you will definitely still need to check on the thread of that bolt tho..

Uh no. White smoke would be from a head gasket, or cracked block, something that is leaking coolant into the cylinder. Then it burns off and causes the white smoke.

If it was the valve seals of turbo it would be a bluish smoke from the oil burning.

So white smoke=burning coolant.

And why won't the bolt torque?

Does it just start turning if you try to torque it higher? Or does it not turn at all when you try to torque it at 72lbs. Because it may have somehow already gotten over torqued the first time around.

 

[knochgoon24]

Pull that bolt and see if the threads are messed up. You may also want to measure it and see if it's already stretched too much.

The OEM headbolts are a torque-to-yeild style. The torque spec given is a torque for right before they start to yeild. Then it tells you to torque it a certain rotation to stretch the bolt just a little bit. That way, the bolt is clamping with it's maximum force.

If your bolt has already stretched too far, it may need replaced.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

It torques to 65... Anything over 65, 66 even, it will just spin and never hit that torque. I'm scared to take it out, the car runs fine now, so I'm scared if I take it out I may rip the threads out or something--

Also, when I drove it tonight and saw the boost was getting too high, it didn't smoke at all. Even when I hit that 20psi mark by accident, twice, it was no smoke. I let off when it got around 16psi atleast 10x and no smoke whatsoever. That's why I'm assuming I must have hit like 25psi earlier in the day when the smoke occurred. At that psi the stock HG and stock bolts may have lifted just for a slight second, or slightly overworked the turbo for a split second before I let off.

I'm not 100% on the smoke being white. I was a bit shocked and then got distracted by traffic to pay attention to the color until it was almost gone. So I'm 70%. But even so, it won't replicate under "normal boosting levels" (10-16psi). I figured if it was a legit bad HG or a blown turbo the problem would repeat constantly, not just one time and never come back. The only difference between that time and me trying to replicate the issue was I didn't crazily overboost.

Would a stuck closed wastegate and a stock turbo overboosting at 23+ psi on a stock HG and stock head bolts cause the car to smoke like it did?

 

[rlacasse1]

Well if the bolt is just spinning then either you broke it or you stripped the threads. You need to pull that out now and find out what happened to it, then decide what the best route is to fix it. I'm guessing it is stripped because if it broke it wouldn't torque at all. Hopefully it's just the bolt and you can tap the block easily. If it's the threads in the block then you might be screwed, I don't know if heli-coils are strong enough for a head bolt. I have heard they are, but have no personal experience using them on head bolts. I have used them for rocker arms though.

Anyways, that's probably what is causing your issue because you have nothing there holding head against the block. So it's quite posssible that it lifted under boost and let coolant in to the cylinder.

That's what I think at least.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

I also thought that, BUT:

15lbs, 1/4 turn, 1/4 turn is the "torque spec", and all bolts meet that. I wanted to make sure all the bolts were exactly even, which is how I found out about the 66 lbs failure. But technically all bolts are torqued beyond spec by around 5lbs.

Also thought if it were a HG it would smoke constantly or if I boosted at a high psi. As stated I boosted around or above 16 psi maybe 20 or more times since I replaced the HG in the first place and it only smoked this ONE time, and that time I think it's safe to say I overboosted to somewhere 25psi or possibly higher (hopefully not). I think that the overboosted caused a one time problem because I've been drivin the car the past 2-3 weeks and didn't have an issue until this one time--

 

[rlacasse1]

Dude, maybe it's not causing your issue. But, regardless of whether it is or not, that head bolt or the threads are ###ked and you need to figure that problem out.

Even if you don't hit that much boost anymore, that bolt still needs to be fixed.

 

[96 420a-t]

Absolutely fix that bolt. If the threads are stripped you can heli coil, it will hold. And id say just to be safe replace the head bolt(s). Torque once and they're done.

 

[Spike420A]

best bet just replace that bolt better safe than sorry best of luck

 

[lcrivers816]

that sounds scary as hell was there oil in the bolt hole? did you get it fixed??

 

[turbo98eclipse]

It's fixed-- wastegate actuator is also leaking which caused the overboost-- that should be in the mail this week

 

[turbo98eclipse]

so when i went to paint my valve cover, apparently i had plugged the side vent on the cover and forgot to unplug it. under boost the crankcase fumes/pressure had no place to vent... causing my issue. all fixed now