1G Head install - can't get flush with block

[pdxkris]

After getting my head gasket question answered in another thread, I went to reinstall the head and found that it seems to be teetering on something and not sitting flat. Is there a common hang-up that I should be looking for?

I did install the ARP head studs, and I'm aware of the vfaq for the front motor mount (ARP Head Stud Install for 1G TELs), but that's not what I'm running into. The exhaust studs aren't installed, and just to make sure, I took the mount off and tried again, and ran into the same problem. I plan on making the cut to the mount now that it's off, but it's not the problem this time.

The head seems to sit flush on the passenger side, but it's between 1/8" and 3/16" above the block over by the water pump. Lifting up on the intake manifold causes it to rock in the proper direction, but it never actually becomes flush in the front by the water pump. The intake manifold appears to be sitting properly on the stay / rear bracket, and the block alignment dowels are in place (never removed them).

It seems like it's getting caught up on something below the intake CAM gear, but I'll be damned if I can see what it is. I've lifted the head off, checked for obvious obstructions, and tried again a couple of times, but always with the same result.


Is there some secret I'm missing? I'm going to be working on it again tomorrow morning, and can take pics then if it will help, I didn't have my camera with me today.

 

[gofer]

Did you get the head resurfaced?

 

[AlaskanDsm]

I was going to ask the same thing. It sounds like your head is warped man. I would take that to get it resurfaced and I bet it will resolve your issue.

 

[rlacasse1]

It is also quite possible that the head is just hanging up on one of the alignment dowels. Happens quite often.

 

[pdxkris]

I was going to ask the same thing. It sounds like your head is warped man. I would take that to get it resurfaced and I bet it will resolve your issue.

whoa, whoa, whoa... easy with the 'W' word!

It crossed my mind, but everything was fine when I took the head off (I only changed it because I was already doing timing and other gaskets), and I removed the bolts in the proper order, etc.

But no, I did not get any machine work on the block or head. It wasn't in the budget (or timeline), and from what I read, it shouldn't have been a huge deal as long as it was it good running condition when I started, and I didn't plan on running a MLS gasket.

is 1/8" to 3/16" warpage really a possibility on a head that was just on and running right?

It is also quite possible that the head is just hanging up on one of the alignment dowels. Happens quite often.

Any hints for ways to free it up? I tried shifting it back and forth but that didn't do the trick.

 

[tallywacker]

Don't just assume its completely fine. Go ahead and follow this vfaq to find out for certain.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

 

[cutty2fast]

i had a similar problem with a tranny install and i had a dowel pin in the block and a dowel pin in the tranny in the same spot??? dont sound like your problem just a thought

 

[SrKegler]

The rear bracket off of the intake manifold isn't hanging up is it???

 

[BrokenTsi]

Put the head on first, then put the head studs in.

Why are you trying to put the head on without cutting the mount? It HAS to be cut, anyways, so if you're hanging up somewhere else, you're going to hang up there as well. Honestly, I cant think of anything that would cause this except for the engine mount.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Do you have help to put it on i have a friend to help me line it up.

 

[pdxkris]

The rear bracket off of the intake manifold isn't hanging up is it???

It doesn't seem like it. I have to lift the intake manifold up off the bracket in order to move the head in the right direction. I've only got the bottom (block-side) bolt in on the bracket.

Put the head on first, then put the head studs in.

Unless something jumps out at me when I look at it with fresh eyes this morning, that's just what I'm going to do, thanks!

Why are you trying to put the head on without cutting the mount? It HAS to be cut, anyways, so if you're hanging up somewhere else, you're going to hang up there as well. Honestly, I cant think of anything that would cause this except for the engine mount.

I wasn't trying to avoid cutting the mount, I just forgot I needed to until the first time I tried to put the head on. I cut it last night, and it's going on this morning The mount was off for my last 2 tries just to make sure it wasn't contributing to the problem.

Do you have help to put it on i have a friend to help me line it up.

Yea, I'm doing the work at my parents house. My dad isn't fond of working on cars, but he's around for manual labor when I need help. He was helping me when I was trying to get it on before, and neither of us could figure out what was going on.

 

[njdaewoo]

Sounds like one of the dowels might have come up out of the block. Check the height of your dowels.

 

[pdxkris]

Sounds like one of the dowels might have come up out of the block. Check the height of your dowels.

The dowels measure .25 and .27 in height from the block surface. That doesn't seem like enough of a difference to account for what I'm seeing, but I'm starting to think the dowels are the problem.

If I get in and stand right above the head so I can manipulate it myself, I see/feel that it's only fully sitting on one of the dowels at a time no matter how careful I am to put it on perfectly even. Its behaving as if one/both of the dowels are put in at an angle, but I never took them out, and they appear 90* from the blocks surface to the naked eye.

Are the dowels relatively easy to remove so I can try and re-seat them? If so, how to you get them out? (I'm about to search.. but if somebody beats me to it.. )

Any other ideas?

 

[romeen]

You really need to check the head for warp. You can't assume that since it was running good before that your ok. Just follow the link that tallywacker gave you. If it is warped to the degree that you're describing then you may be better off replacing the head since the warp will distort the alignment of the cam bores.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Put the head on first, then put the head studs in.

Why are you trying to put the head on without cutting the mount? It HAS to be cut,

Sorry... I just saw this and wanted to clear this up.

The mount does NOT have to be cut.

Simply place the head on, and slide the studs down into the block from the head. Thread in with fingers/allen wrench to be snug, and then torque down.

How do I know? That's how mine is and it's perfect. No cutting period.

;D

As with the block sitting flush, I had the same issue for about 5 minutes. I had to turn and adjust it a bit before it seated on the dowels and fell into place perfectly. Of course, I put my head on first and then my intake manifold. >.< Which was a bad choice there, but either-way I made it work.

Just check that everything is clear of the mating surfaces and carefuly work the head down onto the block.

 

[BogusSVO]

the head dowels could be out of round so the head will not slip over them, some times a soft face mallet is needed to tap the head down over the dowels.

is this the head that came off that block? or is it a 2g head on a 1g block?

 

[BrokenTsi]

Sorry... I just saw this and wanted to clear this up.

The mount does NOT have to be cut.

Simply place the head on, and slide the studs down into the block from the head. Thread in with fingers/allen wrench to be snug, and then torque down.

How do I know? That's how mine is and it's perfect. No cutting period.

;D

As with the block sitting flush, I had the same issue for about 5 minutes. I had to turn and adjust it a bit before it seated on the dowels and fell into place perfectly. Of course, I put my head on first and then my intake manifold. >.< Which was a bad choice there, but either-way I made it work.

Just check that everything is clear of the mating surfaces and carefuly work the head down onto the block.

Right, just like I suggested. If you were to put the head studs on first, like most do, I'm pretty sure that mount has to be cut. If you slide the head on without studs, the mount doesnt have to be cut, however you wont be able to pull the head off next time while the studs are still in the block.

Its been a while since I had to cut anything. I cut my engine mount like 10 years ago, so this stuff is a flashback of when I was bone stock.

 

[TOW3RMUNKY]

I agree that there is probably a problem with your dowels. You can use an easy out to extract them. I would suggest just replacing them, they are fairly cheap