Has anyone achieved >= -3.5 front camber on a 2G?

[m3smgii2002]

Used to running -3.5 Front and -2 Rear on my M3 CSL so not 100% sure this will be optimal for my 2G DSM but 0 is really bad on my R-comps side-walls. However, most of the kits I see are POSITIVE camber (WTF??) and I don't think -1.5 from an eccentric bushing is enough. Does the adjustable upper control arm OR stock control arm PLUS eccentric bushing give decent negative camber range?

Thanks,
-Malcolm

 

[silvreclips]

A company use to make adjustable front upper control arms but I believe they were discontinued. I see some pop up for sale every now and again. Might be your best route to go.

Found them

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...d-aluminum-adjustable-upper-control-arms.html

 

[Paul@RTM]

An adjustable balljoint for the upper control arm can give you loads of -ve camber. I think I had mine up to at least -3 before I switched back to near stock values. I believe several companies make them (Ingalls, Moog, etc). There's also upper shock mount camber/caster plates as well. I think Ground Control makes one.

 

[Xploitn]

What about crash bolts? I would advocate these and camber plates before the aftermarket upper control arms, I've read that people have issues with this arms reducing the travel available and something about clearance or bottoming out (I don't remember which). Turbosax2 has them from a company named SPC.

Again I would advocate doing the upper control arms last and camber plates first. The Ground Control Camber plates are supposed to enable a small adjustment to caster which is hard to get AND great to have! RRE is another option for camber plates. I don't think they do the caster though.

good luck, I will be following this thread because I will be doing a good amount of front caster and I am currently at stock now.
(fix the front, don't hurt the back!)

 

[ACM]

Good luck with crash bolts and camber plates on a 2G !!

I'm currently running -3* on my autocross car - it's great for dry grip but it hurts braking and wet grip. M3s have strut front suspension so there's no such thing as too much static camber - 2gs have wishbone front suspension, so it gains camber in roll (or at least doesn't lose as much). I suspect late 2s would be fine, and braking would improve. I'm running Scott McIntyre's cut stock arms with offset bushings.

 

[m3smgii2002]

Thanks! I'll take the dry-grip over wet grip for the R-comps/slicks - I dialed the braking loss out of the M3 with tire pressure - trick was to run as low PSI as possible (white chalk on the sidewalls, tire pyro, etc).

ACM, Scott McIntyre's car profile mentions he is running SPC upper-control-arms, Prothane bushing and RRE plates - is your setup (cut stock upper-control-arm plus offset bushings) how you achieved -3 degrees camber? Thanks again!

-M

 

[everbruin]

I advise not to use an aftermarket upper front balljoint that's taller than the thin/short stock one; see other threads. I also have cut/rewelded front upper arms and offset bushings; seems like the best solution.

 

[knochgoon24]

You'll be around -2° front camber after lowering the car to a reasonable height. By that, I mean that the lower control arms will remain pointing from the car down-and-out to the wheels. From there, you can choose your method to get that last bit of camber.

In the rear, you'll then need to correct the camber (washers and longer bolts) because it will be too negative after lowering. Not sure if you autox or road race, but you'll need to keep the rear a bit higher to help the car rotate, aka. Stink bug mode. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/433628-rake-stink-bug-mode.html

 

[Scott McIntyre]

ACM, Scott McIntyre's car profile mentions he is running SPC upper-control-arms, Prothane bushing and RRE plates

Yes, I used to run those cut stock arms with OEM bushings, but then I bought SPC adjustable control arms. The SPC arms provided me with the adjustability I didn't have with cut stock arms, plus the ability to adjust caster as well. I can easily get -3.5º camber with the SPC arms, but have found that to be too much for my setup.

The downside of the SPC arms are:

1. They're no longer available.
2. Replacement ball joints are no longer available.
3. The ball joints are taller than stock and will hit the inner fender if you lower the car / don't have massive spring rates.

Charles' (ACM) current solution is probably the best / only solution currently available for our cars.... Modified stock arms with adjustable offset bushings (for fine tuning).

 

[m1nd64m3]

Stay away from the adjustable balljoints, they are crap on a lowered car. I had them on mine and they caused the control arm to bottom out on the wheel well with even the slightest crack or bump. They were the worst thing I ever did to my car and removed them asap, $170 down the drain + having to buy replacement press in oem style ball joints.

 

[Paul@RTM]

I had them on mine and they caused the control arm to bottom out on the wheel well with even the slightest crack or bump.

This is true, the adjustable bj's are taller on top and there can be clearnace issues, but they can be accomodated if necessary. But I agree, adjustable control arms and camber plates are definitely a better way to adjust camber, but they are MUCH more expensive. Just sayin'.

 

[ileagleracing]

I cut about an inch out of my stock arms and used the +1.25 to +3 ingalls control arm mounts to add some adjustment.

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[rx7ttlm]

Used to running -3.5 Front and -2 Rear on my M3 CSL so not 100% sure this will be optimal for my 2G DSM but 0 is really bad on my R-comps side-walls. However, most of the kits I see are POSITIVE camber (WTF??) and I don't think -1.5 from an eccentric bushing is enough. Does the adjustable upper control arm OR stock control arm PLUS eccentric bushing give decent negative camber range?

Thanks,
-Malcolm

I rock the SPC adjustable front control arms and get Way more camber than I need. I could probably run 4.5-5 degrees if I wanted. Good luck finding them these days. I bought the last set SPC had like 2 years ago. Keep in mind that they are two totally different cars. Run what you need and not more. The camber gain on a 2g is greater than the strut m3. Start with 2.5 and add from there as needed. Also if you happen to switch R compound tires keep in mind each tire model will like different camber values. So switching from 888's to RA1's will net different camber values on the same car/ wheel combo.

 

[m1nd64m3]

This is true, the adjustable bj's are taller on top and there can be clearnace issues, but they can be accomodated if necessary. But I agree, adjustable control arms and camber plates are definitely a better way to adjust camber, but they are MUCH more expensive. Just sayin'.

They are taller on the bottom too, it causes the control arms to sit up at a higher angle than stock. I think the only way to use them effectively on a lowered car is by making more clearance in the wheel well.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I think the only way to use them effectively on a lowered car is by making more clearance in the wheel well.

They make their own clearance, given time.

 

[m1nd64m3]

They make their own clearance, given time.

The thought of letting that happen makes me cringe. The constant bottoming out was the worst thing I have ever experienced in a car, you feel it through your whole body and your just waiting for the time that something breaks in a horrible fashion. I had to drive so slowly and carefully and it still happened constantly, I couldn't get those things off quick enough. That being said if anyone is looking to experience this themselves I have a set for sale .

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Used to running -3.5 Front and -2 Rear on my M3 CSL so not 100% sure this will be optimal for my 2G DSM but 0 is really bad on my R-comps side-walls. However, most of the kits I see are POSITIVE camber (WTF??) and I don't think -1.5 from an eccentric bushing is enough. Does the adjustable upper control arm OR stock control arm PLUS eccentric bushing give decent negative camber range?

Thanks,
-Malcolm

A 3-series BMW chassis needs a ton of negative camber because of the suspension design. e36/e46/e92s are critical to get a ton of camber

A 2g GSX does not nearly have the same issues for needing the amount of camber. -2 to -2.5 at most is all you will really need. That is with Hoosiers too, I was only at around -1.5 degrees on the GSX and it was fine on street tires. I know its tough, I came from the DSM world where we didnt need camber and almost flipped a crap when I was first advised to -3.5 degrees. Now, I am at almost -4.5 degrees of camber on the bmw.

Crappy front strut design But it somehow is obliteratingly fast, makes no sense.

Comparison, -1.5 degrees on gsx, -4.5 on bmw, produce very similiar camber on turn in. GSX just doesnt need that much static camber.

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