GSXR Coil on plug setup?

[Lunch_Box]

Here are the coils that are known to work

Honda CBR coils - current model bikes
Suzuki GSXR 600 through 1000 - just about ideal length
Suzuki GSXR 1300 - longer than GSXR 1000 but should clear hood
Seadoo GTX 4-tek - nearly ideal length
Chrysler 300M - good length and used in popular DSM tuner COP kits

I just got some 2000 Chrysler 300m coils out of a 3.5L and they are identical to the 2.7L Intrepid coils besides 1 mounting bracket being in a different location. Buschur and Slowboy uses the 300m coils and TurboTrix uses the GSXR coils.

I also just got a MSD DIS-4 cdi to run all of them and everything being controlled with a Autronic SM4 ECU.

I have about $120 in the coils and all the factory plugs and wires then all i have to do is fab up a metal plate to hold them. So im guesing around $130-$140 for the complete setup which blows away the $499 price tag Buschur sells them for. Oh ya this is going on a 03 Evo 8 so not sure how much the ones go for on a Talon.

Anyway hope this helps.

Chris

Buschur now sells their COP for $280. Where did you buy your 300m coils from? New or used?

 

[black92_tsi_awd]

1G/2G COP goes for $269 at Buschur

 

[2K4EvoVIII]

Ya but there EVO setup goes for $470 which is rediculous since its the same damn thing with a different metal plate but hey whatever. I got the coils from my friend at the Chrysler dealership. Brand new i paid $75 i think for the set. You can go to http://moparpartz.com and they have them there but i think they are around $47.25 a piece.

Here is a direct link to the coils
http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...60793&make=7&model=300m&year=2000&catalogid=1

I have seen them on ebay now and then so you might want to check those out also. When i ordered the plugs and wires from Toyota which is what works with the 300m coils i did a search for the part number and if you tell them your from the Supra Forums you get a discount

Chris

 

[polarmoment]

www.rockauto.com also sells 300M coils for ~$30ea, and 2.7 intrepid coils for $27.99ea.

i'm actually using this thread for info for another project, but i have to finish the signal conditioning circuit on the electronic distributor i'm designing first.

i've also been trying to find the plugs for these somewhere cheaper. they've got to be available for less than $13ea (including wires). i may just hardwire mine.

 

[keeperchow]

OK so so far I HAVE



1. you need 300m coils (4)
2. Toyota wiring harness to coils (optional) To look nice and neat.
3. plate to mount coils on

hook trigger wires from msd or stock setup (which would be waste spark) to 300m coils and place them on the plate made for this project.

is this how easy it is or is there much more to it...


I'M going to use the MSD DIS 2 or 4
i haven't decided yet which do most people find better
i have both of them sitting in my garage waiting


IS it true that this is all you need for this setup or do you need anything else

i have heard that you need other things because you can t boost if you use this setup which would be pointless right

if there is anything else please list so i can try this out already and tell everyone what i find out
lets get this project set and good for others to use and enjoy
cheaper then buying it and you also get the satisfaction that you have made this mod yourself which usually makes people feel good

 

[306dsm2.0]

is the evo valve cover the exact opposite of a dsm if so i can make a plate for you evo guys on the mill at my work for cheap or even free if you can supply me with some coils. If it isn't give me the dimensions and i can do it. If not give me the dimension of the stock spark plug cover or send me a stock plastic cover and i can make you a plate to use with the evo. I can already make the plates for the dsm's if anyone is interested.

 

[polarmoment]

i've been thinking too that if the stock dwell time is too long, you could use the stock signal to feed a monostable multivibrator acting as a one-shot. the output pulse width in seconds is equal to the resistance in ohms multiplied by the capacitance in farads*0.693, so that would make it easy to manipulate dwell time simply by changing the resistance.

 

[BISHILVR]

i've been thinking too that if the stock dwell time is too long, you could use the stock signal to feed a monostable multivibrator acting as a one-shot. the output pulse width in seconds is equal to the resistance in ohms multiplied by the capacitance in farads*0.693, so that would make it easy to manipulate dwell time simply by changing the resistance.

Hmmm, the old r/c time constant eh??? Sounds like a idea, but I think the only one's on here that understands what your talking about is you and me.

 

[J92EGSX]

i don't seem to understand how changing the resistance is going to change the dwell time, dwell is programed in to the ecu and is never changed, it is a constant. the resistance is just going to affect how far the coil is going to be charged before it is grounded. less resistance means that it is going to charge faster most likely depending on coil winding ratio will have less overall max kv. i might be confused please explain more.

 

[BISHILVR]

i don't seem to understand how changing the resistance is going to change the dwell time, dwell is programed in to the ecu and is never changed, it is a constant. the resistance is just going to affect how far the coil is going to be charged before it is grounded. less resistance means that it is going to charge faster most likely depending on coil winding ratio will have less overall max kv. i might be confused please explain more.

What we are talking about is a seperate, external trigger circuit that has what is known as a r/c time constant. This would actually allow the user to adjust the coils saturation time.

 

[J92EGSX]

What we are talking about is a seperate, external trigger circuit that has what is known as a r/c time constant. This would actually allow the user to adjust the coils saturation time.

ok i get it now, thanks for clearing thing up.

 

[keeperchow]

so even if you buy yoru s form a online store you will have this same problem

 

[polarmoment]

Hmmm, the old r/c time constant eh??? Sounds like a idea, but I think the only one's on here that understands what your talking about is you and me.

who says i know what i'm talking about??


j/k.. seems like this would be a simple way to set the system up with not only adjustable dwell control, but since it would use an external transistor anyway, it could be designed to carry more current than the stocker and not cost more than a couple bucks to implement.

 

[gsx951]

I thought I'd update this with my progress (or lack of) so far. I've shelved the C.O.P. and gone back to the O.E. ignition. Here is what has motivated that decision:

The Dwell issue that I currently can not address.
Misfire problems that I never had until switching to Coil On Plug.
Multiple posts on various boards from guys that I respect who call this mod into question.
(Techs from RRE and FP)
Post after post documenting failures with the MSD DIS-2 on every DSM forum

I've had all kinds of problems with the car falling on it's face under boost, even with new plugs. Prior to the mod, I could run 25 psi on .028" gapped BPR7ES plugs. With C.O.P., the ignition would break up around 20psi (more or less- it would vary).
BradS from RRE has posted that the output from the stock coils is on the order of 120 millijoules, which is more output than the standard MSD DIS-2 with a Blaster coil!
I like to look of the C.O.P. set-up but not at the expense of performance.
This stuff will sit on the shelf until I can figure out how to make it work at least as well as stock. For now, it seems like I'm thowing money away if I pursue it any further.

 

[polarmoment]

seems like a sound decision.

do they call it into question in its current iteration though? it seems like most everyone has tried to bolt them on and wire them up to the stock ignition system and it didn't work. that doesn't, however, mean that it can't work.

if i had a running car at the moment, i'd be happy to try out some of these ideas. unfortunately, the only running car i have right now also has a distributor and i haven't totally completed the electronics to eliminate that just yet.

scratch what i said about controlling dwell though. i was thinking of dwell in terms of milliseconds and not crank degrees. if you were to use a static dwell trigger like a one-shot with the stock system it would severely retard timing at higher RPM.

i still think, however, that the problem isn't excessive dwell time, from the symptoms of people using the system. it seems more to me like the coils aren't charging fully.