GSXR Coil on plug setup?

[eclipse98GST]

Does anyone on here know how to do this setup or know where a right up on it is?

 

[Defiant]

Right up what?

You might want to search "Coil On* Plug" and re-think the idea. Unless you're only doing it for looks, which is the sole purpose of doing it.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Thre is info on the AEM forums and you are best off to use coils from a 2000+ 300m.

 

[Alfordz123]

They arent just for looks.

The coil on plug setup give much more defined and controlled spark than the stock coil.

Many of my friends have had problems with stock coils giving them fiyts around 6 grand +.
They used 300m and GSXR coils and fixed the problem.

and on the difference between 300m and gsxr coils im pretty sure they will both do the same job... jsut depends on the the ignition system you use.

Thanks
Alex

 

[keeperchow]

I have been looking everywere on how to DIY with a coil on plug setup.
What plugs, coils, and wires will you need?
I have heard to use Intrepid or 300 coils.
i believe i have also heard of using motorcycle coils.
which ones would you use if you can use them?
what else would you need?
Is there any other modifications you will need?
How would you wire this setup up with a MSD DIS-2?
i have seen some nice ones already but i like to do things myself
and they are pretty expensive.

i already have the msd GM 2 tower coils but i was told this would be better to have
is this True?

Hope someone can answer my questions because Ive almost gone crazy looking up all this stuff and coming out with nothing..

 

[talon96tsi]

why not use coils from an ls1? dont they have cop ignition stock?

 

[qtxdevilz]

i heard that with the ls1 coils you will need to buy a special box from autometer in order to get your tach to work...is that correct?here is the post:

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96609

 

[Lunch_Box]

From everything that I have read the 2000+ 300m coils are the best ones to go with. You will also either have to buy a plate for them to sit on or make your own and either hard wire them in or wire them into a plug so they can plug in like the factory set up.

 

[qtxdevilz]

From everything that I have read the 2000+ 300m coils are the best ones to go with. You will also either have to buy a plate for them to sit on or make your own and either hard wire them in or wire them into a plug so they can plug in like the factory set up.

just wondering if you know how much they go for...and if any other circuit board or box is needed

 

[gixrman]

You still need a waste spark coil like the factory. Just goto here http://www.dvdtfab.com/ under products.
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197353&highlight=coil+plug

 

[gsx951]

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9486&highlight=coil+plug

It's all in this thread.

 

[gsx951]

They arent just for looks.

The coil on plug setup give much more defined and controlled spark than the stock coil.

Many of my friends have had problems with stock coils giving them fiyts around 6 grand +.
They used 300m and GSXR coils and fixed the problem.

and on the difference between 300m and gsxr coils im pretty sure they will both do the same job... jsut depends on the the ignition system you use.

Thanks
Alex

This is not the case at all.

 

[polarmoment]

looking at the setup, if you WANTED to run sequential fire instead of waste spark, it seems you could use a T flip-flop to switch each coil drive signal between the two coils that the COP setup would run per coil pair (1 flip flop for 1&4 and another for 2&3).

example: coil A signal is to fire 1&4. coil B signal fires 2&3.

the ecu fires #1 via the old coil A, and on the falling edge of the clock signal, switches the flip flop output to #4, at which point #4 remains "enabled" until the ecu fires it and the resulting clock pulse switches the toggle output back to #1 to wait for the next fire signal/clock pulse.

after the ECU first fires #1, the next ignition event signal goes to the other T flip flop (where it would have gone to the 2/3 coil "B"). this fires #2 and the falling edge switches the output to cyl #3 so it can fire the coil on cylinder #3 upon the next clock signal to that coil pair. obviously the flip flops would have to drive some sort of high current transistors like IGBT's.

but then again, as has been stated over a billion times already, this stuff ain't necessary for a dsm. i can think of some other applications though..

 

[keeperchow]

So does anyone know were a good site is that will explain how to do this
Ive gone trough many forums and they just argue about if its good or not.
This post is for people who want to put this on their car. So in their heads its good and maybe other just want to find out for them selves..........
OK Little of the subject but we the people who want to try this out for our self just need a good detailed description or diagram on how to do this
i have clicked on many Links and most of them or dead i guess or just old links.
Can someone direct the other people and I to a good working site or maybe even write a good description on this forum on how to do this.
That would be a lot better then having to go through and read about peoples theory's......
because Ive looked for a good site or link and its just made me sick to my stomach

 

[keeperchow]

This IS a good wiring diagram for this project to start things off...

i hope this works click here

it is posted by apexid33a

i tried to post the picture but i really don't know how to
i ll try again later i guess

he also explains what coils you can use.


i don't know if you need any other modifications besides the plate the coils will sit on to do this modification.
if so someone please inform us

 

[keeperchow]

I modified the image to make it a little better.

its 1234
instead of 1423

and the stock coils are also numbered

OH YEAH i guess the image did work out at first

 

[gsx951]

I grabbed this from the AEM forum a while back. Erich Moraga posted a ton of info there but the sever is being switched over and the AEM forum is currently down.
Part numbers as follows:
Chrysler 300M coil 4 pcs required P/N 1-04609088AH (2000 model year w/ 3.5 engine)
Toyota connector housing- 4 pcs requred P/N 90980-11246
Toyota connector wires-8pcs required P/N 82998-12440

 

[BISHILVR]

The problem is, the impedance of the coils or sets of coils have to stay the same as the stock setup or you will be replacing transistor units every week. Some sort of resistor network will have to be made to keep things working right. I have'nt gotten around to it yet but I will be using a setup similar but using r-6 coils, I have just had better things to do with my time lately or I would have it done and let everyone know the details.

 

[gsx951]

The problem is, the impedance of the coils or sets of coils have to stay the same as the stock setup or you will be replacing transistor units every week. Some sort of resistor network will have to be made to keep things working right. I have'nt gotten around to it yet but I will be using a setup similar but using r-6 coils, I have just had better things to do with my time lately or I would have it done and let everyone know the details.

I understand what you're talking about with impedance matching but have not heard of failures involving the transistors.
It would appear that the stock igniter can safely drive the 300M coils.

 

[keeperchow]

So the choices we have for coils are the Chrysler 300m, or the 2000 dodge intrepid

which one do most people use...... or have found to be better

oh yeah i guess my diagrams are a little wrong then right

whoops

 

[gsx951]

The 300M coil is what the majority of folks are using.

 

[Lunch_Box]

So the choices we have for coils are the Chrysler 300m, or the 2000 dodge intrepid

which one do most people use...... or have found to be better

oh yeah i guess my diagrams are a little wrong then right

whoops

I have posted this twice but what the hell lets go for a third time, th ebest coils to use are from the 2000+ 300m.

 

[polarmoment]

i believe erich is also using the dwell time for the dodge viper with his coils, set through the AEM. the excessive dwell time of the stock coils appears to be a problem with using this setup on a stock ECU. someone mentioned using 2.7L intrepid coils as well. i have one sitting on my desk right now and it uses the same connector and dimensions as the 300M, but has weird mounting tabs on the sides that may keep it from fitting in the spark plug valley. i haven't had a chance to test it yet, but they should be electrically similar.

i also think that part of reason for the misfires that people have reported are due to the fact that the stock power transistor is designed to run about 10amps through the stock coils (primary resistance: 1.2ohm). with a primary resistance of ~0.4ohms, the 300M coils require about 30A to charge. when wired in parallel (as shown in the diagram above) the circuit requires even more power (something like 50A). the stock power transistor can't deliver that much and thus can't fully charge the coils. i don't think the excessive current draw would necessarily damage the transistor, just that the transistor would limit current through it.

if the ignition signal were used to drive a darlington switch using a high current IGBT, i think the coils would perform much better as the current would not be limited through them. this would cost about $5 in parts from digikey.com.

ST microelectronics STGP20NC60V can handle 30A continuous and 100A pulsed current and cost $3.11 each. a switching transistor (2N2222 for example) driven off a 10k pull-up resistor from the stock Q to ground driving the gate of the IGBT with another pull-up to ground should be able to handle the 300M coils. the IGBT will have to be heavily sinked though, since it has to dissipate ~360W.

it would look something like this:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

EE's feel free to correct my homework

 

[keeperchow]

So i take it this is still not a completed project.......

dont they sell these for like a couple hundred dollars .....
wouldnt have to work since they sell it on the market...

has anyone seen one of these already made ones do they have anything special on them or they use the same things that everyone is figureing they use.....

 

[2K4EvoVIII]

Here are the coils that are known to work

Honda CBR coils - current model bikes
Suzuki GSXR 600 through 1000 - just about ideal length
Suzuki GSXR 1300 - longer than GSXR 1000 but should clear hood
Seadoo GTX 4-tek - nearly ideal length
Chrysler 300M - good length and used in popular DSM tuner COP kits

I just got some 2000 Chrysler 300m coils out of a 3.5L and they are identical to the 2.7L Intrepid coils besides 1 mounting bracket being in a different location. Buschur and Slowboy uses the 300m coils and TurboTrix uses the GSXR coils.

I also just got a MSD DIS-4 cdi to run all of them and everything being controlled with a Autronic SM4 ECU.

I have about $120 in the coils and all the factory plugs and wires then all i have to do is fab up a metal plate to hold them. So im guesing around $130-$140 for the complete setup which blows away the $499 price tag Buschur sells them for. Oh ya this is going on a 03 Evo 8 so not sure how much the ones go for on a Talon.

Anyway hope this helps.

Chris