GSTwithPSI Galant VR4 1837 of 2000

[GST with PSI]

Hey G, i noticed your pull afr and WB are similar to mine , as in your {actual} interpolates back and forth
(up an down)on Your { expected }.

I assume thats normal and perhaps unlikely to have it macth near perfect ?

From my experience, that's about as close as it gets. You're always going to see some slight variations, but if your target and actual AFR look like the snapshot above you're good to go. Mine are tracking nearly dead on for the duration of the pull.

 

[GST with PSI]

Wrenching continues! Recap of the updates from the last few weeks.

Alright, cooling...

After I swapped to the FP3052, I ended up having to ditch the passenger side cooling fan due to the lack of clearance on the back side of the radiator. I was hoping a single fan would keep up, but it wasn't quite cutting it after extended idle time. So, I relocated the fan to the front side of the A/C condenser in a pusher configuration. It was a bastard squeezing the fan into that tiny space, but it ended up fitting pretty well.

With the fan relocated to in front side of the condenser, I had to move my oil cooler, which was previously in that space. Since I had to move it anyways, I figured it was a good time to upgrade. So, I picked up a B&M oil cooler setup to replace the factory 1990 oil cooler I was running previously. I situated it where the deleted ABS unit was, which locates the core nicely to get adequate airflow.

Old setup:

New setup:

With the FP30 turbine housing being located so close to the radiator on the Galant, I wanted to do a little extra to divert some of the heat in that area. So, I picked up a PTP turbine housing blanket. It's a really nice blanket, and fits like a glove. It also works awesome. You can literally touch the blanket after extended engine operation.

All the improvements in the cooling department seem to be working really well. We're seeing mid 80's to mid 90's here (about as hot as it gets in MD) with horrible humidity, and I've yet to see anything much over 206 degrees. I'll provide some future updates after I get some more seat time.

I installed new plugs gapped at .028 since I added the CDI box. Previously, I was gapped down to .018, which circumvented some ignition issues I was having at higher boost levels. I figured while the plugs were out, I'd also do a compression test. I'm still at 175-180 PSI across the board, which I'm pretty happy with.

 

[GST with PSI]

The FP3052 didn't like my old 3" intake, which seemed to be causing some compressor surge. So, I crafted up a 4" version that basically mimicked the old one.

Continuing my quest for crisper shifts, I installed new OEM shifter cables, a new cable bracket, and upgraded to solid shifter base bushings.

I replaced the rear carrier bushings with new OEM stuff as well. I forgot to do this when I added the DSS driveshaft, so I finally just got around to doing it.

At this point, I think I've got most of the bugs worked out. I'll be playing with the tune, and putting some test miles on the new setup in the next few weeks. So far, I'm really impressed with the FP3052. The car runs and feels awesome. It's hard to compare the FP3052 fairly to the 68HTA, since the entire hot side is exponentially more efficient. But, the FP3052 in it's current configuration is definitely the superior street turbo. I'm seeing 30 PSI by 4k RPM, and this turbo has awesome top end to match the quick low end response. I'm hoping for a visit to the track, and maybe even the dyno in the near future to get some real numbers up for comparison. Thanks for reading along.

 

[94awdcoupe]

you have struck gold with that boost response. wasnt a fan of the new v2 68 design. my thoughts seeing the first results were exactly 3052 related. you are way better off with one.

 

[We're on Boost]

Man, you have a World Class engine bay now. And thanks for the good pics.

I'm not sure I understand exactly where your oil cooler new location is. My car never had ABS so I have no clue where that was.
But it looks like your cooler is not in front of the radiator at all now, it is way over to the driver side, right behind an opening in the nose, close to where the oil hoses come out of the oil filter housing - probably those hoses are only a foot or 2 long now - is that the location?

Mine is sandwiched between the FMIC and the radiator, which I don't really like because the heat coming out of it goes right into the radiator. I've thought about locating it like I think yours is now. That's gotta be better, although it would have to be protected from stones thrown by the tire probably. Is there like a wheel well liner or something that does that?

 

[Dsmkauai]

Really nice bro! I hope mine looks that good after it's fixed

 

[GST with PSI]

you have struck gold with that boost response. wasnt a fan of the new v2 68 design. my thoughts seeing the first results were exactly 3052 related. you are way better off with one.

Hey, Jerry. Yeah, it spools so quickly, I'm having surge issues at low RPM under high load. It's much quicker than I anticipated. The 3052 has got to be one of the best street turbos out there. It's a great all around performer, least as I can tell thus far.

The 68HTA V2 didn't spool this well, but IMO it's still a pretty good turbo for what it is. It's a journal bearing sub $600 dollar bolt-on turbo in stock appearing form. And, it's certainly good for 450whp in the right configuration, which is pretty decent all things considered. There are definitely better turbos out there, but for a lot of guys looking for an easy bolt on solution, the 68HTA V2 isn't a bad deal.

Man, you have a World Class engine bay now. And thanks for the good pics.

I'm not sure I understand exactly where your oil cooler new location is. My car never had ABS so I have no clue where that was.
But it looks like your cooler is not in front of the radiator at all now, it is way over to the driver side, right behind an opening in the nose, close to where the oil hoses come out of the oil filter housing - probably those hoses are only a foot or 2 long now - is that the location?

Mine is sandwiched between the FMIC and the radiator, which I don't really like because the heat coming out of it goes right into the radiator. I've thought about locating it like I think yours is now. That's gotta be better, although it would have to be protected from stones thrown by the tire probably. Is there like a wheel well liner or something that does that?

Thanks, Gary. It certainly didn't happen overnight. Started from the bottom, now we're here

Here's a little before/after (Oct 2013/Jul 2017):

Regarding the oil cooler, it's positioned right in front of the driver side tire. There is a fender liner that separates the cooler core from the tire and any debris that may be thrown from it. The hoses run from the cooler to a 90' OFH. The longest hose is probably around 2" long.

Really nice bro! I hope mine looks that good after it's fixed

Thanks! And yeah, damn man. I saw the pictures of the carnage. That really sucks. Galant parts are going to be a bastard to find in Hawaii. They are already hard enough to find here in the states. I hope you get it back on the road in short order. I may have some stuff laying around here I can give you. You'll need to pay shipping, obviously, but shoot me a list of stuff you need and I'll see what I have laying around.

 

[COVR4355]

Beautiful VR4 Brett! Magnificent work and looking forward to the dyno and 1/4 mile videos. Yeah I am sold on the fp3052-30lbs at 4k wow-due to your build ;p
Keep up the great work buddy!

 

[We're on Boost]

Ok good, I'll have to see if I can find my wheel well liners. Pretty sure I still have them somewhere haha.
Your Oct 2013 picture makes me laugh and cry it's so close to what my car looked like when we first got it. I had one of those maf in a can foam air filters too, with the foam actually falling apart, chunks coming off. . And the can was torn. And the tires were some unknown brand directional tires, with 2 of them going in the wrong direction. Most of the rest I've blocked from memory.

 

[We're on Boost]

I just looked through a bunch of your pictures looking for ideas on how to mod the front license plate for minimal restriction of airflow to the radiator. Looks like your mod is - no front license plate haha!
My profile pic shows no front plate, or actually it was behind the windshield at the time, I think. But I haven't run it that way for a long time. Don't want to make my car cop bait any more than it already is.
Are front plates not required in Maryland?

 

[GST with PSI]

Are front plates not required in Maryland?

No, they are. I just refuse to run one because I think it's a stupid ass law. I've got a few warnings/tickets for it. Luckily, my wife always seems to get stopped instead of me

 

[We're on Boost]

Haha! Ok good to know. Thanks.

 

[copenhagen6123]

I love this build

 

[We're on Boost]

@GST with PSI
I would be really interested in a screen shot of your boost control tables and settings. I don't have that you know, because of flex-fuel. But, thinking about how I would use it if I had it!

 

[GST with PSI]

You can just download one of the logs posted in any of the previous pages. Aside from the duty cycle, nothing else has changed.

I don't have that you know, because of flex-fuel. But, thinking about how I would use it if I had it!

What do you mean?

 

[We're on Boost]

You can just download one of the logs posted in any of the previous pages. Aside from the duty cycle, nothing else has changed.
What do you mean?

Well, I have my boost controller set up about the way I want it for 2nd gear pulls and it works well for that. But if I pull from a low rpm in 3rd gear it will surge a lot. It surges not the way people usually think of. I think it is surging because of going back and forth between the "crack" pressure setting in the AEM Tru-Boost, and the duty cycle that I have it set for, for low boost running (25psi or so). So to cure that I would have to lower the crack pressure, which I have tried, but it's not ideal for 2nd. I could also use a little more boost in 3rd gear. 46% duty cycle is all I'm running, to keep it reigned in a bit in 2nd gear. If I had boost control by ecu, which I would if not for the flex-fuel code, I would be able to set up those tables to all this a bit better. So it's just something I've been thinking about a little bit. Not too big a deal but it is something I think about.

Basically the AEM Tru-Boost is just a little too simple, but we had to do a separate controller because of flex-fuel.

Hmm, probably I need to be logging controller duty cycle to know for sure why that surge happens.

 

[GST with PSI]

Still confused as to why flex-fuel support is not allowing you to use ECMlink boost control.

 

[19gsx91]

I'm wondering if he's using the table that WOULD be for boost control for the flex fuel sensor (I have no idea how it works but that is my takeaway)

Brett! runs from the dragstrip? or a 70-90 time?

 

[GST with PSI]

I haven't done any logging lately. I'm still waiting on DSS to ship me a new slip yoke for their driveshaft.

The Boost (WGS) table is only used for boost control as far as I'm aware.

 

[We're on Boost]

Oh man, I think I remembered wrong, why we did it this way. Reconstructing my memory from “backup”, here I think is how it happened:


1.) Lucas wanted to have boost track ethanol % automatically, like you can do with the AEM EMS series 2.

ECMlink can’t do that.
The EMS for 1g was discontinued about a year before my project got going.


2.) I wanted to have multiple boost pre-sets available (high, low, medium) from buttons on the dash, without needing to have the laptop in the car.

ECMlink can’t do that either.


3.) Lucas wanted to use the AEM solenoid, which is supposed to run on a 30hz signal. He said he didn’t really like it that ECMlink runs a 25hz* signal to the solenoid. This is probably no biggie though.

*Oops, that's a 17hz signal according to this 2010 wiki: http://dsmlink.com/wiki/boostcontrol

What ER recommended after all that was to use the AEM tru-boost, which has 2 boost pre-sets and runs at 30hz.


So now, I don’t know, rethinking this, I might do this different, at some point!

But yeah, my Boost (WGS) page is there in the “Live settings”.

 

[We're on Boost]

@GST with PSI
What's happening with your car lately? Did you ever get that part from DSS?
I notice that the Forced Performance XR DSM 61-56 ball bearing turbo is your "wish list" turbo. It is also probably the turbo I would use if I ever built a 2nd car, or if I had to redo mine again from scratch for some reason.
I noticed that turbo finally on the FP web site because I was looking high and low for their page showing the FP30 turbine housing as a separate part, and the associated cast stainless recirc O2 housing. Finally noticed they show those 2 items in their pics of the XR DSM 61-56 but not anywhere else.

So Yesterday I called FP with some questions and talked to Wyatt. Here are some things I found, maybe you already know all this but I want to put it out here.
The FP30 turbine housing, they only have a few of left in stock and they don't know if they will ever make another batch. Very sad if they never make more.
The few FP30 housings they have left they want to sell as complete turbos, as pictured in "image 7 of 7" for the XR DSM 61-56. You see in "image 6 of 7" there are no V-band flanges on the outlets yet because they weld the flanges on with all the parts in a jig, when you order the whole turbo-O2 assembly at once. Makes sense, these are rigid parts and if they don't line up perfectly it's not good.
Wyatt said they have more of the O2 housings left than turbine housings, and you could buy the O2 housing separate if you wanted to.

He also told me that the turbine wheels in their 61-56 turbos are what I would call "Footprint identical" or "Silhouette identical" to the Garrett GT30 turbine wheel, so I think you could use turbine housings made for the GT30 on these FP turbos. He said they are Silhouette identical but not totally identical in terms of blade cross-section shape, to the Garrett GT30 wheel.

Was interesting talking to Wyatt, he's a good guy!

 

[GST with PSI]

What's happening with your car lately? Did you ever get that part from DSS?

I bought a house, moved across the country, and the car has been sitting in the garage on the back burner for months now. It will probably stay there for a while, sadly.

DSS did finally ship me a new slip yoke. Overall, I have not been impressed with their driveshaft, or their customer service. It took over a month to get them to ship me a new yoke. Eventually, I'll make a thread outlining the whole debacle, but I would recommend to anyone considering buying a DSS driveshaft for a Galant VR-4 to stick with the stock unit.

I notice that the Forced Performance XR DSM 61-56 ball bearing turbo is your "wish list" turbo. It is also probably the turbo I would use if I ever built a 2nd car, or if I had to redo mine again from scratch for some reason.
I noticed that turbo finally on the FP web site because I was looking high and low for their page showing the FP30 turbine housing as a separate part, and the associated cast stainless recirc O2 housing. Finally noticed they show those 2 items in their pics of the XR DSM 61-56 but not anywhere else.

So Yesterday I called FP with some questions and talked to Wyatt. Here are some things I found, maybe you already know all this but I want to put it out here.
The FP30 turbine housing, they only have a few of left in stock and they don't know if they will ever make another batch. Very sad if they never make more.
The few FP30 housings they have left they want to sell as complete turbos, as pictured in "image 7 of 7" for the XR DSM 61-56. You see in "image 6 of 7" there are no V-band flanges on the outlets yet because they weld the flanges on with all the parts in a jig, when you order the whole turbo-O2 assembly at once. Makes sense, these are rigid parts and if they don't line up perfectly it's not good.
Wyatt said they have more of the O2 housings left than turbine housings, and you could buy the O2 housing separate if you wanted to.

He also told me that the turbine wheels in their 61-56 turbos are what I would call "Footprint identical" or "Silhouette identical" to the Garrett GT30 turbine wheel, so I think you could use turbine housings made for the GT30 on these FP turbos. He said they are Silhouette identical but not totally identical in terms of blade cross-section shape, to the Garrett GT30 wheel.

Was interesting talking to Wyatt, he's a good guy!

The 61-56 is indeed on my wish list, and I'd maybe like to upgrade to one in the future. Either that, or a FP3065. I'm pretty happy with the FP3052, but it's not flowing much more than my 68HTA was. Power wise, I'd like to make a bit more with the car than I am now, but, the response I'm getting from the FP3052 is unmatched by anything I've ever had on the car, so I'm not in a huge hurry to upgrade. This 3052 setup is the f***in business on the street, and I'm extremely happy with the car as it sits currently. The Xona snails have all the new tech and aero, so I'm hoping to retain most of the characteristics of my current setup, with the potential for a bit more power up top.

FP has never wanted to sell the FP30 turbine housings separate. You're not the first to have asked, and won't be the last to get told they aren't for sale separately.

The 61-56 can use the FP30 housing. It is also available in a variety of TiAL turbine housings: http://www.xonarotor.com/products/xrturbochargers/164-xr6156. If you weren't aware, Xona is simply a partnership between FP and TiAL.

Ideally, I'd like to go T3 on the 61-56 and swap to one of @Archer Fabrications bad ass manifolds. But, the convenience of the FP30 housing, integrated wastegate and FP cast O2 housing are hard to beat. Simply swapping the 61-56 CHRA into my current setup is much more attractive than buying a whole new turbo setup from the exhaust manifold down, and then having all the hard parts custom fabricated to support it. Shit costs money...

 

[We're on Boost]

Ah yes I see now – San Diego! Major life change, a move like that, hope it is good.

Hope you missed the fires down there. Here we had more smoky days than I can ever remember . We even got smoke from Canada before we got our own smoke! I put a little video on my “dash three” YouTube channel, shot from my boat on Lake Sammamish on a day when there was nobody else out there, probably because of air hazard warnings ? I don’t really know.

I think it’s really cool that the 61-56 CHRA will plug right in to the FP30 housing you already have.

I did not know that XONA was FP + TiAL. I like that. I also never quite understood the change from “HTA” to “HTZ” but I guess HTZ is what Robert calls the newer compressor wheels that were designed since the formation of XONA?

Last night I looked at the actual XONA web site for the first time. Here’s what I saw that really made me smile. Their page called "Xona Bearing Preload System". On that page they actually talk about all the questions I asked of Geoff (Full-Race) about the BW EFR bearing system which also uses 2 angular contact ball bearings. The difference being, Geoff didn’t know the answers to any of my questions haha! That was back around 2010 to 2012. So I have a lot of respect for XONA, that they would recognize and talk about these design problems.

 

[iceguru1114]

That's gonna be a long drive to the shootout

 

[GST with PSI]

Last weekend I had a little meet up with the SoCal Galant crew. It was really good to see some old friends, and meet some new ones.

We had a total of 3 VR-4s show. Mine, Jeremy's 734/2000 (the sweet AMG car), and Martin's 802/1000. David showed in his super clean Evo 8, as well as Eric and Anthony who own 1607/2000 and 1877/2000 (respectively). Here's a few shots at the meetup spot before the canyon drive:

A panorama, and a few more shots at the top of the canyon:

Annnnnnd then I got a little overzealous on the way back down and popped the headgasket. HUGE thanks to David and Anthony who stuck around until the tow truck got there. I owe David big for the free tow and ride home. On days like these, I'm just really grateful to be part of a small car community made of straight up legit guys.

Coolant in cylinder 2, but whateves...Needed an excuse to tear the car apart and install the qm twin anyways. Blown head gasket or not, today was awesome. Nothing better than driving the canyons, eating bacon, and spending the better part of the day hanging out with car guys! Here's a video of the canyon drive:


I still need to test the E85 in my tank. I have a suspicion the ethanol content is a bit low, and I got some knock. Can't confirm since I wasn't watching the dash or logging, but I was pushing the car harder than I should have been given the circumstances. I needed to install my twin disk and some other parts anyways, so I guess instead of putting it off forever, now I have a reason to get it done.