Grounding wire mod does it really help engine performance?

[TSi999]

My car has had some electrical gremlins before so this sounds like it would be good for it.
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75889
Does this actually improve engine power??

Thanks

 

[bjgarvin]

It fixes a bad ground. that's it.

Ben

 

[brads]

Originally posted by TSi999
Does this actually improve engine power??

Thanks

What did you find when you searched?

 

[VRMAN]

It can make power if you put the new grounds, dyno, move them around, dyno again, move them again and then notice you picked up or lost HP.


It does have the potential to add power, but most likely not. Good mod either way though I think.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by VRMAN
It can make power if you put the new grounds, dyno, move them around, dyno again, move them again and then notice you picked up or lost HP.

So each individual car is going to be different? Surely if its a HP adder, it is because there is a shortcoming in some system of the car, and all cars of the same model would respond to better grounds at that point.

Or are they relying on the incompetence of the dyno operator to find a few HP that aren't really there in some random configuration of ground wires?

Originally posted by VRMAN
It does have the potential to add power, but most likely not. Good mod either way though I think.

If it provides no benefit, how is it a good mod?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88522&highlight=ground

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26424&highlight=ground


Brad

 

[VRMAN]

Whether it adds power or not I believe its a good mod because it has the ability to restore lost power or just plain provide better grounding. My car is 11 years old and the grounds probably aren't in optimal condition. HP adder or not, it certainly won't hurt is what I was saying.


And no, because one car gains HP from one grounding point doesn't mean another of the same make and model will. Every car is different, no just every model of car.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by VRMAN
Whether it adds power or not I believe its a good mod because it has the ability to restore lost power or just plain provide better grounding. My car is 11 years old and the grounds probably aren't in optimal condition. HP adder or not, it certainly won't hurt is what I was saying.

The grounds "probably" aren't in optimal shape? Have you checked them? Have you unbolted and cleaned them? And as far as better grounding goes, how good is good enough? How do you know your factory ones aren't good enough?

They will hurt if they add unnecessary weight to the car, and expense to your budget. Why would you waste money on something that does nothing?

Originally posted by VRMAN
And no, because one car gains HP from one grounding point doesn't mean another of the same make and model will. Every car is different, no just every model of car.

Assuming you have enough brainpower to know how to make sure your stock grounds are all bolted in correctly, exactly WHAT is going to be different that causes you to need to dial in ground points on a car by car basis? And why wasn't this done at the factory? They all came bolted in the exact same way from the factory. I have YET to see or hear of a car requiring individual ground point tuning from the factory for best performance. This is beyond absurd, I don't have any word to describe how ridiculous your argument is.
Brad

 

[VRMAN]

Im not arguing with you, don't have to be a ####-shaft.

Unneccessary weight? Anyways.....


Hey every 1991 Eclipse GS-T came with the same turbo charged engine. So 10 years later they will all dyno the same HP then right?

I don't really care to "argue" with you anymore as you care and I don't. I bought a grounding kit from HKS, so I guess I wasted my money since I didn't just clean my originals. And nevermind the fact that 2000-2003 cars with brand new groundings from the factory have changed to this kit and gained up to 13HP.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by VRMAN
Im not arguing with you, don't have to be a ####-shaft.

You aren't arguing with me? Funny, it appears as though you are saying the exact opposite of what I am saying. Sounds like arguing to me.

Originally posted by VRMAN

Unneccessary weight?

Extra HP by tuning the ground points?

Originally posted by VRMAN
Hey every 1991 Eclipse GS-T came with the same turbo charged engine. So 10 years later they will all dyno the same HP then right?

No they won't, yet another incorrect statement on your part. But that is irrelevant. They all still are the same car, with the same stock wiring harness design. What is going to be so drastically different that it will require the grounds to be in different locations?

Originally posted by VRMAN

I don't really care to "argue" with you anymore as you care and I don't. I bought a grounding kit from HKS, so I guess I wasted my money since I didn't just clean my originals. And nevermind the fact that 2000-2003 cars with brand new groundings from the factory have changed to this kit and gained up to 13HP.

Now you say you are arguing with me? Whatever. Yep, you did waste your money. The HP gains measured will vary directly with the incompetence of the dyno operator. Sure you might find some gain on some car that has had an engine fire that melted all sorts of stuff for example. Like the one magazines test subject. Or if the car was designed with bad grounds. Like certain older VWs. But I have yet to hear what's wrong with our cars. You seem to have all the answers though, so let's hear it.

Or are you just in denial over the fact that you got suckered into spending lots of money on snake oil?

Brad

 

[VRMAN]

1. Having different opinions doesn't constitue arguing.

2. I didn't say tune the grounding points I said move them around to find optimal points, this has been done MANY times in Turbo Magazines "Power Pages" Go find it.

3. You said incorrect when you meant irrelevant. Which it was not as I was applying your fuzzy logic to prove a point.

4. Don't be ignorant, I quoted "argue" as reference to your earlier attempt at bullying, I am not saying arguing. The magazines have tested everything from RSXs to new 350Zs not fire riddled VW bugs as Im sure sits in your garage.

5. seriously at your last remark. Well guess you win,silly me I got "suckered out of money" on snake oil. I guess if I had your level of income I would consider that but alas I do not so I am comfortable with my purchase.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by VRMAN
1. Having different opinions doesn't constitue arguing.

I used the term argument. Most dictionaries would disagree with you.

Originally posted by VRMAN
2. I didn't say tune the grounding points I said move them around to find optimal points, this has been done MANY times in Turbo Magazines "Power Pages" Go find it.

Moving them around to find the optimal points is the same thing as tuning them. And being in turbo mag proves what? That there are several other people who know as little about electronics as you?

Originally posted by VRMAN
3. You said incorrect when you meant irrelevant.

Nope I said incorrect, then I said irrelevant. It was both. Thanks for playing though.

Originally posted by VRMAN
4. Don't be ignorant, I quoted "argue" as reference to your earlier attempt at bullying, I am not saying arguing. The magazines have tested everything from RSXs to new 350Zs not fire riddled VW bugs as Im sure sits in your garage.

Ouch. accusing me of owning fire riddled VWs. What a low blow. Every article I have seen and dismissed was done by incompetents, for incompetents. Good to see that they reached their target audience, and they are buying into it.

Originally posted by VRMAN
5. seriously at your last remark. Well guess you win,silly me I got "suckered out of money" on snake oil. I guess if I had your level of income I would consider that but alas I do not so I am comfortable with my purchase.

Oh, and now it's an attempt to make fun of my level of income. How much do I make? I'm not the one working on an 11 year old car, thats you Just because I can and do own several vehicles newer than yours, doesn't mean I would feel OK about wasting money on snake oil. I guess having an old car is your justification?

Brad

 

[lawdaman]

You guys are ridculous. You sound like a couple females. As for the adding weight... WTF!? We arent talking about steel pipping here. There wires... A couple ounces. Believe me that doesnt make a difference

 

[brads]

Originally posted by lawdaman
You guys are ridculous. You sound like a couple females. As for the adding weight... WTF!? We arent talking about steel pipping here. There wires... A couple ounces. Believe me that doesnt make a difference

But why would you pay good money to add useless dead weight to your car? A few ounces, a pound, one hundred pounds, it doesn't matter. If you want to add useless dead weight, supersize your next value meal. It's a lot cheaper, and will give you the same ballast effect the wires do.

Brad

 

[greyforestgst]

i ran some 6 gauge from the negative battery terminal to a threaded hole on the head.

costs close to nothing, and actually does have the potential to make a tad bit better spark. ive seen a couple respectable sources gain a couple horsepower throught the entire range.

every little bit helps, and its not like it can hurt. i couldnt notice a difference personally, but its honestly a 2 minute job that anyone can do.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by greyforestgst
i ran some 6 gauge from the negative battery terminal to a threaded hole on the head.

costs close to nothing, and actually does have the potential to make a tad bit better spark.

When the spark current doesn't even travel from the head to the battery negative, how does adding more wire help? The current travels from the coil, to one plug, back up another plug, and back to the coil. It NEVER goes back to the battery on our cars, unless you have done a full rewire of your ignition system.

If you read the other links I posted, you will see where I clearly explain how the things you think it will help, it can't possibly make a difference on.

Post articles or links to the "respectable sources". I will explain to you why their conclusions are either wrong or irrelevant to our cars.

Brad

 

[brucerap]

On my previous car i added a ground wire from my O2 sensor to chassis. It altered my sensor readings (according to the a/f meter), hence the ecu received a more accurate sensor reading. I guess I could argue by doing that I improved performance and/or engine efficiency.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by brucerap
On my previous car i added a ground wire from my O2 sensor to chassis. It altered my sensor readings (according to the a/f meter), hence the ecu received a more accurate sensor reading. I guess I could argue by doing that I improved performance and/or engine efficiency.

You could argue that. But if you were talking about doing this to a DSM, what you would have really done is bypassed the sensor ground, and altered the sensor readings providing less accuracy, not more, to the ECU. You also would then have to worry about the fact that you were injecting more noise into the otherwise fairly well isolated ground circuit by hooking it directly to chassis ground.

Brad

 

[brucerap]

Where is that circuit ultimately grounded to? would it actually 'bypass' the sensor ground, or could it possibly enhance it? sorry I'm new to 3-wire setups. wouldn't a dedicated ground wire potentially lessen the noise compared to a shared ground circuit?

 

[brads]

Originally posted by brucerap
Where is that circuit ultimately grounded to? would it actually 'bypass' the sensor ground, or could it possibly enhance it? sorry I'm new to 3-wire setups. wouldn't a dedicated ground wire potentially lessen the noise compared to a shared ground circuit?

The sensors are on their own circuit, so as to keep noise down. The ground wire that goes to them goes directly back to the ECU. This wire is used as the zero volt reference for the A-D converter on the microprocessor. So it keeps everything at the same reference level. The sensors themselves do not create much noise, and are relatively low current, so they don't have much problem on their own.

BUT, when you add another wire to the circuit, you create a ground loop. Now ALL the noise in the system will affect the sensor readings, since any current flow resulting in variation in ground between the battery, the ECU, and the new ground you added are going to result in differing ground levels at the sensor, and microprocessor which is trying to read the sensor. This doesn't hold true for all vehicles, but the way our DSMs are wired, it is best to not rewire the sensor ground, unless you rewire it exactly the same way stock is done, back to the ECU. But there isn't a point to that, unless your ground wires got damaged.

Brad

 

[brucerap]

thx for the info. very informative.

 

[ckozlgod]

Listen, it's already a proven fact it CAN add HP. It just a pain in the arse trying to do. You have to get the "sweet spot" if you will...

I have seen several dyno's from other cars with the hypergrounds and I have seen upwards to +5 HP.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by ckozlgod
Listen, it's already a proven fact it CAN add HP. It just a pain in the arse trying to do. You have to get the "sweet spot" if you will...

I have seen several dyno's from other cars with the hypergrounds and I have seen upwards to +5 HP.

Listen. Learn how to read. Learn how electricity works. If after you read and understand EVERY part of what has been discussed here and in the other threads I linked, you STILL have a point to make, then post it. But right now, you don't know a damn thing, and are proclaiming your ignorance to the world.

Brad

 

[dsmjay]

brad

im with you on this one. just because some add in an import tuner mag says that it adds this much power or that much power doesnt mean anything. and they can have their fake ass dyno test sheets there too. if thats the case...then you are the same guys that fall for those tornado adds. "put this tornado in your intake pipe and gain up to 29hp" . wow you guys are really suckers and if thats the case i got something that i would like to sell that will add 32 wheel hp....

brad good job explaining and having the patience with this post

 

[ckozlgod]

Who said anything about import tuner??
Sorry I don't read Ricer Mags

I have seen real dyno slips sorry.

Listen. Learn how to read. Learn how electricity works. If after you read and understand EVERY part of what has been discussed here and in the other threads I linked, you STILL have a point to make, then post it. But right now, you don't know a damn thing, and are proclaiming your ignorance to the world.

Ouch, I am almost hurt by your negativity, person who I don't even know

The proof is in the putting...I didn't say that for the wires, just putting them on and wham! you get HP did I?:thumbdown

Bash me if you want, I never claimed that I know everything there is to know about them, I just said that I have seen them in action.

Cause I would almost waste my time making something up....right?
Sorry but if I made something up that would hurt any credability I have,and someone called me on it, I wouldn't be posting and leading people in the wrong direction...sheesh.

BTW I did read your links, and all I have seen was you bashing on EVERYONE who asked a simple question. Without even TRYING to be civil about it. Instead, you post smart-a$$ remarks. WAY TO GO MAN!

 

[97eclipsedGS]

brads, you are an asshole.

ive been on this forum for quite a long time, and i have yet to see as big an asshole as you. congratulations, you win the least helpful and smallest dick award

anyways, the groundwire mod is a good maintenance one, in terms of strengthening the overall efficiency of your electrical system. if you can afford the 15 bucks in parts, IT CANT HURT, despite what brads says. he sure ate his internet wheaties!