Grounding wire mod does it really help engine performance?

[brads]

Originally posted by ckozlgod
Who said anything about import tuner??
Sorry I don't read Ricer Mags

I have seen real dyno slips sorry.

Good for you. Now post them, post the exact details of the testing. And then listen to me explain to you why your gains are all in your head.

Originally posted by ckozlgod

The proof is in the putting...I didn't say that for the wires, just putting them on and wham! you get HP did I?:thumbdown

No you said something more ridiculous. You were talking about some sort of magic grounding points that can only be found by trial and error. If the grounds improved the electrical performance, an engineer would be able to measure the current grounds, and use that to determine where they go, what they are benefiting, etc. Not that you would have the skills required to do that. Have you bothered checking the resistance of your current grounds? Have you bothered checking the current flow through them? Have you bothered looking at the engine schematic to see how a change in resistance at THAT point affects the circuits grounded through it? If it makes you feel better, the engineers who sell these wires as "upgrades" haven't done any of that either. I asked one of the biggest manufacturers of these at SEMA what the resistance of their cabling is, and they couldn't even answer it.

Originally posted by ckozlgod

Bash me if you want, I never claimed that I know everything there is to know about them, I just said that I have seen them in action.

Cause I would almost waste my time making something up....right?
Sorry but if I made something up that would hurt any credability I have,and someone called me on it, I wouldn't be posting and leading people in the wrong direction...sheesh.

What credibility? By posting as if your dyno is all the proof people need that ground wires aren't magic beans, you have no credibility. I posted information detailing exactly why it does NOT help many of the things people claim it does. Your response? "Does TOO help". Some credibility. Post exact and complete info regarding dyno tests, then we will discuss it.

Originally posted by ckozlgod

BTW I did read your links, and all I have seen was you bashing on EVERYONE who asked a simple question. Without even TRYING to be civil about it.

I responded civilly to people who had intelligent things to say. Brucerap got a good response in this thread, because he had a specific point about the wires. People who had nothing intelligent to say, got treated that way. People who could entirely ignore the entire technical content of a thread and post at the end" Ground wires DO help, so there!" got treated with the respect due such an incredibly imbecilic comment. Sorry you haven't said anything intelligent yet. When/if you do say something intelligent, I will treat it as such.

Brad

 

[brads]

Originally posted by 97eclipsedGS
brads, you are an asshole.

ive been on this forum for quite a long time, and i have yet to see as big an asshole as you. congratulations, you win the least helpful and smallest dick award

I dunno, it appears that other people gained a bit of insight from my posts. Maybe those were the people who can read?
So what if I am an asshole? I am an asshole who doesn't get suckered into buying snake oil. You think your less than clever comments about dicks don't make you an asshole too? The main difference between me and you is that I am not an IGNORANT asshole.

Originally posted by 97eclipsedGS
anyways, the groundwire mod is a good maintenance one, in terms of strengthening the overall efficiency of your electrical system. if you can afford the 15 bucks in parts, IT CANT HURT, despite what brads says. he sure ate his internet wheaties!

And magnets on your fuel lines can't hurt either, maybe you should buy into those? I read on the internet they can align the ions of your fuel and give big gains! If you like putting useless dead weight on your car, ground wires are a great mod. And if you like spending countless hours "tuning" your grounding locations to find that imaginary HP gain, have fun!

Ate my internet wheaties? Sorry, I don't understand your cool forum junkie lingo. Speak english, moron.

Brad

 

[brads]

Oh, and just to let you know 97eclipsedGS, the splitfire platinum plugs you list on your mods, they are snake oil too. They claimed huge gains, then when the govt told them to prove it or stop making the claims, they had to stop making the claims because it was all a lie.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/

So I guess this whole ground wire thing just follows a trend of you buying into snake oil. Good for you!

Brad

 

[ckozlgod]

I don't have dyno slips, IT WASNT MY CAR, or did you misread what I said?

I don't have the patience to go back and forth with you. I think it would benefit everyone esle if we stopped because no one else is going to put up with it, I know I wouldn't

But to answer your reply;

And I never said I HAD credibility, I implied that I may or may not have any. I am relatively new to the site so for me to say I am a "God" or sorts would be a lie.

You don't deal with misinformed people by being a jerk, hopefully you will learn that, because people will actually listen to what you have to say. You want to know why they still bought them? Becase you knocked them for wanting to try it and you basically called them morons.So why would they trust anything you have to say? And then when they do buy them you rip on the, some more.If you want any sort of respect then I would strongly suggest becoming more mannered.

Sorry you haven't said anything intelligent yet. When/if you do say something intelligent, I will treat it as such.

Ahem!, and I am the ignorant one? Wow, maybe you should grab yourself a Webster's and look up the meaning of that word, it may surprise you, but your picture should be right next to the word "Ignorant"

Sorry not everyone can be as "Smart" (enter sarcasm) as you are brad.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by ckozlgod
I don't have dyno slips, IT WASNT MY CAR, or did you misread what I said?

But you MUST know the exact details about the dyno runs right? I mean, only a COMPLETE moron would take a couple of dyno runs that show a SMALL gain, as evidence of anything, without finding out the FULL story behind the runs. Right?

Originally posted by ckozlgod
I don't have the patience to go back and forth with you. I think it would benefit everyone esle if we stopped because no one else is going to put up with it, I know I wouldn't

I don't really care. You want to argue they work, then bring a VALID argument. You want to just say they do, without anything to back you up, then expect to get ridiculed.

Originally posted by ckozlgod

But to answer your reply;

And I never said I HAD credibility, I implied that I may or may not have any. I am relatively new to the site so for me to say I am a "God" or sorts would be a lie.

Well you obviously must think that you are some sort of expert on the subject, otherwise you would have read what was posted, and tried to absorb some of the info there, instead of just butting in and making your idiotic statement.

Originally posted by ckozlgod
You don't deal with misinformed people by being a jerk, hopefully you will learn that, because people will actually listen to what you have to say. You want to know why they still bought them? Becase you knocked them for wanting to try it and you basically called them morons.So why would they trust anything you have to say? And then when they do buy them you rip on the, some more.If you want any sort of respect then I would strongly suggest becoming more mannered.

And I strongly suggest you keeping silent until you have something worth posting. I really don't care if people buy them. I just don't want to hear someone without a clue about electronics try to explain why they THINK they got some sort of benefit from them. Enjoy them if you got them. Just don't expect me to do anything but ridicule you for wasting your money. I am only a jerk to the willfully ignorant people like yourself. People who seemed able to have something to say in an intelligent manner, got an intelligent response.

Originally posted by ckozlgod
Ahem!, and I am the ignorant one?

You are the one who admitted you don't even know that much about the subject. I do. So yes, you are the ignorant one. At least you are grasping that. Next time, we will work on explaining ground wire fallacies to you.

Originally posted by ckozlgod
Sorry not everyone can be as "Smart" (enter sarcasm) as you are brad.

And not every one can be as willfully ignorant as you. So where are the dyno sheets? Or did you just hear about them from a friend's cousin who heard from their bosses hairstylist that they once saw proof?

Brad

 

[pneumo]

Our cars are well grounded from the factory. Just make sure all of the grounds are attached, clean and corrosion free.

BTW thanks Brads and friends for the entertainment.

 

[igs]

Originally posted by pneumo
Our cars are well grounded from the factory.

Bingo. And the point of ground wire "mod" is to improve the performance of the factory grounds. More wires = less resistance. Thicker wires = less resistance.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by pneumo
Our cars are well grounded from the factory. Just make sure all of the grounds are attached, clean and corrosion free.

BTW thanks Brads and friends for the entertainment.

 

[97eclipsedGS]

brads, you enjoy picking fights with people. it is possible that you will not have the same opinion about something as someone else, but it does not mean that you have to pick them apart in order to prove how right you are. see, there is always the distinct possibility that you are wrong....

in the case that you are not wrong, then thats fine as well. thanks for the "advice," we can all just take solace in the fact that we're not some angry little man with enough pent up rage to go schizo on some internet forum.

i think i speak for everyone when i say input and constructive criticism are welcome, while attacks are not.

 

[kpt4321]

This thread just made me vomit.

Brads - I love it. Well done.

Everyone arguing with him (because I am too lazy to pick you apart one-by-one) - Shut the hell up. Until you have an understanding of how electricity works (which isn't too damn hard), stop trying to give advice on the subject. Asking this question was legitimate, arguing about it was not.

Check all of your factory grounds to make sure that they are in good shape. If they are, then you have nothing to worry about.

A 5 horsepower gain on the dyno is such a small about, it is absurd to try to use it to prove anything. You could gain or lose 5 horsepower on back-to-back pulls without changing anything, just because you'll never put down the exact same power over and over again.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by 97eclipsedGS
brads, you enjoy picking fights with people. it is possible that you will not have the same opinion about something as someone else, but it does not mean that you have to pick them apart in order to prove how right you are. see, there is always the distinct possibility that you are wrong....

Instead of offering your psychological evaluations, which are about as accurate as your electrical evaluations, why don't you post the proof that I am wrong? I'm not tearing apart people for having differing opinions, I am tearing apart people who are uninformed but are posting bad info to this list as though they did have some sort of proof. Maybe you like to get a whole bunch of misinformation, as long as its presented with a happy face. I'd prefer the accurate info, and don't really care how it is delivered. Post something intelligent to back up your belief about the ground wires. I am making it a challenge to you, because I don't think you can even begin to do that.

You keep blathering on about how I COULD be wrong, but you have not displayed the first bit of knowledge on the subject. Post some evidence. Or just admit you don't know what you are talking about and quit posting. Either one works.

Originally posted by 97eclipsedGS
i think i speak for everyone when i say input and constructive criticism are welcome, while attacks are not.

That is funny. Your first post in this thread was an attack on me. Why don't you follow your own advice? I've posted a lot of good info here. All you have posted so far is a bunch of whining about my attitude. Maybe if you spent less timing being upset that people know more than you, you might actually learn something. Maybe then you won't buy into the snake oil for a third time?

Brad

 

[luv4turbos]

Do we need to give some time outs.

I have to agree with brads. Why add new grounds when most of you haven't even checked stock ones to see if they are good or not.
As for the dyno tests you cant say, I gained 10hp and it was because I added new grounds. You are always going to come up with different numbers.

 

[dsmturboawd]

oh brads, you must stop owning, i cannot take this :laugh: :laugh: !

ive been all through this before:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/sho...7&perpage=25&highlight=grounding&pagenumber=1
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88522&highlight=grounding

its the same argument every time.

if someone can provide proof these do something, ill give in.
- vendor proof obviously will be laughed at
- import to0ner dyno sheet is NOT proof as the car caught on fire prior to testing (im sure the wiring was grrrreat to start with)

ill be waiting for some proof. good luck.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

I can say for a fact that my last car which had rough idle and small electrical problems benefited from the HKS kit. I don't know for sure whether or not hp was gained but the kit smoothed out the idle, smoothed out the rpm range, and made it pull harder. This is problaby because of some ground that was already bad and wasn't grounding something properly. But that's what the kit is designed for. Believe me if you want or claim that even though this made my car run 100x better was still just dead weight Let the flaming begin....

Oh ya to those of you who would like a true answer whether this makes you gain hp, buy a kit and rent a dyno for an hour!

 

[luv4turbos]

Why are you comparing the new wiring kits to your OLD factory wiring.
In order to say these kits actually work, your wiring on your car would need to be new also. Which would make it retarted to replace it.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by IMMORTALSPYDER
Oh ya to those of you who would like a true answer whether this makes you gain hp, buy a kit and rent a dyno for an hour!

nah, ill just ask for someone to do so if they want to prove a point.

btw, how much was your hk$ grounding kit?

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

I don't remember how much it cost, it was a while ago.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by IMMORTALSPYDER

Oh ya to those of you who would like a true answer whether this makes you gain hp, buy a kit and rent a dyno for an hour!

I don't need dyno sheets to prove it. The people who buy into them are talking about all these dyno sheets they have seen, and not given ANY info on the tests. Do you realize how easy it is to get a few HP difference on a dyno without changing anything on the car?

If the things make a real difference on our cars, then there has to be a place where the ground wires are NOT sufficient. So it shouldn't be difficult to figure out where that place is. Removing the extra ground wires until you find the one(or more) that makes the difference in your idle or perceived power would be a good start.

I don't need dyno sheets. I'd be happy if you could explain to me what your grounding wires changed that made it pull harder. With just a multimeter, you could measure the resistance of the ground at the points you grounded, before and after the mod.

Brad

 

[97eclipsedGS]

well, i have no proof to offer up except for personal experience. my electrical system in my car was what i will call sub par. everytime i turned an accessory on, my lights dimmed, and you could hear my walbro slow down. so i figured that my grounds were either inadequate or were not as strong as they originally were for the factory, so i replaced the existing grounds with 6gauge wire and added a few more between the engine and the frame, and battery to the frame. i drew a few conclusions afterwards:

1) my stock grounds were either on their last leg, or the were not as good as they could have been, as nothing dimmed after i installed my new grounds.

2) it would be impossible for me to claim power gains, as i have not dynoed it, and it is too small of a change to feel. however, one could make the arguement that strengthening a faulty or inadequately grounded electrical system would strengthen things such as fuel pump performance, injector pulse, spark, etc.

3) this "mod" would be best described as a maintenance procedure. i would recommend doing this if you are having minor idle problems, or other minor electrical problems. you never know when a faulty ground could be the cause.

brads, that is about as much "proof" as i can offer up. hope this helps clear up my stance on the original question. sorry for helping contribute to dragging this thread off topic

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by 97eclipsedGS

1) my stock grounds were either on their last leg, or the were not as good as they could have been, as nothing dimmed after i installed my new grounds.

2) it would be impossible for me to claim power gains, as i have not dynoed it, and it is too small of a change to feel. however, one could make the arguement that strengthening a faulty or inadequately grounded electrical system would strengthen things such as fuel pump performance, injector pulse, spark, etc.

3) this "mod" would be best described as a maintenance procedure. i would recommend doing this if you are having minor idle problems, or other minor electrical problems. you never know when a faulty ground could be the cause.

None of those are what I consider performance enhancements. Has everyone forgotten that Stage 0 ON ANY PERFORMANCE BUILD is to make sure everything is in tip top working order? If adding 'hyper grounds' does anything lighten your wallet, then you weren't even at stage 0.


Everyone needs to stop being ass-clowns and start using common sense. Nobody should discuss the angle of the camera when it comes time for the money shot if you can get it up in the first place. The same concept goes for cars. Stop throwing money away on useles 'performance' crap that wouldn't do shit to a well running car in the first place.

Thread closed.