Going to the track E-85 or 110????

[Jonnynitrous]

I got a good question. where i live we ain't got E-85 but every track that i go to does and also there is 110 available.I am looking to go to the track run as fast as my stuff will let me. which fuel would be a better fuel to get familar with???
91 talon awd
fmic
255 reg
going with the dsmlinkv3
got a b16g may end up with a 20g before spring
go to get a exhaust still

oh and i am cheap

please help
I herd you guys are awesome
going to need some tuning values too

 

[Jonnynitrous]

I think thats too general of a question...all depends on set-up.

110 running a 14b isnt going to be the same as running a GT40 with 110 at the same pressure.


If you run your big 16g, i will bet you should get a 12.8 out of it.
If you run my 20g, I will bet 12.00

Not at all mr rkelly!!! your not going to be making more than a 50 hp differance if the 2 turbos are both maxing out the 110 octane and are still in the efficiency ranges

 

[Mr_mkelly]

Please redo that last statement i dont understand what u just wrote.

 

[yepes281]

Not at all mr rkelly!!! your not going to be making more than a 50 hp differance if the 2 turbos are both maxing out the 110 octane and are still in the efficiency ranges

WTF
Crackhead

 

[Mr_mkelly]

WTF
Crackhead

i dont get it...


Anyways @jonnynitrous

How could the two turbos be maxing out the 110 and making the same power when TURBO #1 has to work twice as hard to push the same amount of flow as the TURBO #2.

Wouldnt the heat difference limit the smaller turbo in the hp?

 

[2gboosted]

since when do you need a FPR with a 255? iv ran 255 FP all the time and iv never ran a aftermarket FPR. on my build this time i just wnet to a 2g fuel rail with stock FPR....... what you really need to watch is your duty cycle on the injectors and fuel pump. you max them out you cause fuel cut then predetnation.

 

[Jonnynitrous]

i dont get it...


Anyways @jonnynitrous

How could the two turbos be maxing out the 110 and making the same power when TURBO #1 has to work twice as hard to push the same amount of flow as the TURBO #2.

Wouldnt the heat difference limit the smaller turbo in the hp?

the 20g at 2.5 bar is 12%more effiecent and flows 8% more than the b16g
the b16g is pretty kick ass acually

 

[Mr_mkelly]

Ya thats why everyone runs the 16g's cause they are cheap and pretty decent.

 

[96awd]

you can't just throw a different type of gas in your car thinking it'll run faster or better, tuning is a main problem. injector size.

as stated above, you don't need bigger lines for e85. you can run a stock rail, and lines if you want for e85 just need bigger injectors..bigger than 1000cc

 

[Jonnynitrous]

you can't just throw a different type of gas in your car thinking it'll run faster or better, tuning is a main problem. injector size.

as stated above, you don't need bigger lines for e85. you can run a stock rail, and lines if you want for e85 just need bigger injectors..bigger than 1000cc

o.k. no prob the car will get tuned(this is said by everyone)sorry
i have herd of people getting away with running pretty fast with 850s with e85 . bigger than 1000 you think????
I got a good question whos right and whos wrong on here?I know we're in the newb section. am i getting good information???????????????
sorry not hating you just trying to some rock solid stuff here

 

[doubleclutch99]

i have herd of people getting away with running pretty fast with 850s with e85 . bigger than 1000 you think????
I got a good question whos right and whos wrong on here?I know we're in the newb section. am i getting good information???????????????
sorry not hating you just trying to some rock solid stuff here[/QUOTE]

when in doubt check it out baseinjectordata [ECMTuning - wiki] 850's arent that small but they are on the lower side of the e85 scale.

 

[96awd]

i have herd of people getting away with running pretty fast with 850s with e85 . bigger than 1000 you think????
I got a good question whos right and whos wrong on here?I know we're in the newb section. am i getting good information???????????????
sorry not hating you just trying to some rock solid stuff here

when in doubt check it out baseinjectordata [ECMTuning - wiki] 850's arent that small but they are on the lower side of the e85 scale.[/QUOTE]

well you gotta think, running e85 with 1000cc injectors is like running 550-600cc injectors with pump gas. I'm in the middle of an e85 build actually. Alot of this info is correct. I didn't read it all, just skimmed really. It's pretty much this way, say you have a completely stock dsm, absolutely nothing done to it and you want the "psshh" sound from the bov. So you take the recirclutation tube off and cap of the intake pipe. then your car starts running like ass..that's due to the car running too rich and then, you need a tune. the smallest thing to a dsm (mod wise) will need a tune refreshed. gasoline however, IMO is a big thing.

 

[Mr_mkelly]

k why do u guys think we arent going to tune the ####ing car?

the guy has a ####ing 9 second nova already ...believe me he knows a bit about tuning...im even starting to get annoyed with ppl saying he needs to "TUNE" his car.

He is getting ECMLINK....there..DONE..on to answering the question more thoroughly.

 

[Jonnynitrous]

thanks mike for clearing that up for me.
I though the dsm fix all was just simply get it tuned!

sorry I know i will tune this message later

 

[ontario AWD]

No need to get upset buddy,everyone is just trying to help.If you guys know so much about tuning what's with all the newbie questions?I don't know what you think is going to happen when you put race gas in that mildly modded car but going fast is not that easy.Good luck!

 

[96awd]

No need to get upset buddy,everyone is just trying to help.If you guys know so much about tuning what's with all the newbie questions?I don't know what you think is going to happen when you put race gas in that mildly modded car but going fast is not that easy.Good luck!

+1

 

[Jonnynitrous]

not really up set but just for fun count how many time it says to tune the car
all i am lookin for is some knowledge about e85 and 110. and ya i am stuck in the newb form for now.
if some one asks hey how much power can i make on 91 alone.there would be answers like you want to be in the 20psi range and cams will put you up 20hps and intake will get you some more revs. you know what i mean?? I was looking for a 110 will get ya____ and e85 will get ya _____ . i got some good info but most of it is "get it tuned" so is this what i should be stuck on just tuning and not worrying about the different fuels out there?

No need to get upset buddy,everyone is just trying to help.If you guys know so much about tuning what's with all the newbie questions?I don't know what you think is going to happen when you put race gas in that mildly modded car but going fast is not that easy.Good luck!

sorry don't want to single you out but if these are all newbe questions can i just call you and you'll give me all the answers . the same amount of answers that the 100s of people on here can give?????
not hating i am serious
or the smilie face says that your not going to help

 

[JayRolla]

To the OP I believe this has gotten a little off topic, if you want straight answers from someone with experience on running race fuels and tuning them himself send me a PM.

 

[tkelly27]

Well Jonny, it seems like a lot of these people have been smoking something. Either that, or going off of info they heard from someone who heard from someone.

Injectors: Evo injectors won't max out a 14b on E85. They will just barely squeak by on gas.

On gasoline there is no penalty for injectors that are up to 1000cc. On E85, this number seems to be 1600cc. 1600cc injectors (even the expensive ones) seem to have problems holding a stable afr at idle with gasoline. They just don't open/close fast enough to be accurate, and they piss too much fuel in. E85 has a lower stoichiometric point, so 1600's idle fine.

The easytune box helps. I've heard they have stopped selling them, but you can make your own for 1/5th the price if you're not retarded with electronics.

There is NO reason to not run 1000cc's if you have a way to tune for them. None. They don't cost tremendously more, and they will idle like stock and give you stock fuel economy on gas. If you plan on running E85 often (I'm guessing you won't be because you can't get it except for at the race track) consider 1600's with a voltage booster for those times you need gasoline. Or grin and bear it when the afr is swinging a little bit at idle.

Everyone with ~750cc injectors is either OK with being slow, or has serious purchasing regret.

E85: Everyone I know running ethanol is running a 255, bigger injectors, and an AFPR. Everything else is stock. E85 is not as harsh as straight ethanol, and straight ethanol is not as harsh as methanol, which will chew through all sorts of stuff.

255 pump: The stock fuel pressure regulator can not bleed off enough pressure at idle to keep a 255 pump at factory fuel pressure. This is extremely well documented, and I don't know why people still claim that it doesn't affect things. It does. Their car may idle fine, but their pressure is too high, and there isn't a good way to tune it out. At higher RPM/load values the injectors are bleeding off fuel such that it is a proper base pressure above manifold pressure, so cruising and wot conditions are normally not affected. Someone without a fuel pressure gauge is probably going to quote this and say some bull s* about how great their car runs without an afpr, but if you do a search you'll find an overwhelming consensus that you need an afpr.

E85 vs. 110 vs. C16: I have no idea which will make more power. I know E85 is way cheaper, even when you factor in the higher consumption rate. If I remember correctly, E85 pulls more heat from the charge while it is evaporating which helps reduce knock, and burns slower which also helps reduce knock. Only having dealt with E85, you can push it past what I had considered the limit in boost, afr, and timing, and continue going faster. Though, if you can't get it, you can't get it.

Water/meth: It's not magic, but it sure as hell seems like it is. Water/meth increases the knock resistance (octane) and cools down the charge as it evaporates. I can't say it will give you the performance of 110 out of pump gas, but it will benefit most any fuel you run. This is an aspect of tuning I only have limited experience with. I have seen a dsm with a 20g with 12:1 fuel ratio and a stupid amount of ignition timing with pump premium and 50/50 water meth. It was a damn fast car. Do some searching on google, kits are typically in the $200 range. I wasn't a fan before, afraid that it would run out, but I've got plans for my own cars to run it.

 

[skatershawn]

E85 fuel FAQ - NASIOC

here this link has ALOT of Info on E85!!

And since you will be tuning.. and you can get e85.. i say tune for the corn!!

 

[Jonnynitrous]

THANK YOU now we are getting some where.
I knew there were some really smart people on here just needed to filter the trash.
good info

 

[Mr_mkelly]

Well i had bought FIC 850's and now jonnynitrous is running them. Are they gonna be good enough with a rising rate AFPR and 110 with say a 20g?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Well i had bought FIC 850's and now jonnynitrous is running them. Are they gonna be good enough with a rising rate AFPR and 110 with say a 20g?

I run a 20g at 25psi on 720cc injectors with an afpr on 110 gas.

 

[Jonnynitrous]

I run a 20g at 25psi on 720cc injectors with an afpr on 110 gas.

wants it run in the 1/4
hows high is the timing

 

[Mr_mkelly]

And whats your IDC @ 25psi?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

wants it run in the 1/4
hows high is the timing

It runs low 12's in the 1/4 at about 115mph and the timing peaks out at about 26 degrees.

And whats your IDC @ 25psi?

Around 70%