Getting 650 injectors now which fuel pump for my goals?

[4gfun]

So you all have helped me choose 650 cc injectors for my goal.

For those of you who haven't seen my other thread, my goal is to run 20-25 psi on 93/94 octane on my Big 16g Turbo.

I don't plan on getting a bigger turbo ever and if I do then I will eat my words.

I have the Ostrich on the EEPROM ECU for management.

Any thoughts on getting a 190 lph pump or a 255 lph pump?

I have done some searching but the levels of boost that I will be running will be different than others.

Thanks again!

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

190lph will suffice. That way you don't risk overrunning your regulator.

 

[rocafellafw]

That's about what I'm looking to do. It's so hard to decide between getting

What you will get by with for less...the 190
or future proofing yourself (never know man once you hit 25psi you might start a addiction) for the extra cost of a afpr

 

[Calan]

Going with the larger pump does require an AFPR...but you won't have to worry about fuel again unless you start going for really big power. A high pressure Wally 255 and AFPR will take you very deep into big HP numbers, and with the AFPR you have the ability to adjust the fuel pressure to get a little more out of the 650's if you ever wanted to.

But...it is more initial expense.

 

[4gfun]

Looool...so I guess I am going through the classic struggle. This decision will be easier for me than most! I doubt I will go with a bigger turbo as there is more to life for me...especially since I can't afford to be the fastest.

 

[Calan]

I doubt I will go with a bigger turbo...especially since I can't afford to be the fastest....

Find one person running 11's or 12's on this forum who didn't say that when they started out. I dare ya.

Yep, it's the classic struggle that we all go through over and over again. Cost vs. goals vs. flexibility for when goals change.

 

[4gfun]

Find one person running 11's or 12's on this forum who didn't say that when they started out. I dare ya.

Yep, it's the classic struggle that we all go through over and over again. Cost vs. goals vs. flexibility for when goals change.

Haha! You are soooo right! Stop it!!

 

[toofast82]

I'd try and find a used Evo9 pump for cheap.<$50
I have an Evo8 pump, which has a pressure relief valve that opens around ~63psi or so. It also flows a hair less.
I still had enough fuel on B16g with E8 560ccs at around 23psi on stock cams and 24psi dropping to 20psi with the 264/272 cams. 93oct and 11:1A/F

If you're going to get 650cc, you might as well get 1000cc. They will run and drive the same and you will have enough injector to go E85 if you like
Also put a wideband at the top of the list for things you need to buy if you don't have one.

 

[SBR Joe]

^^^ EVO 8-9 pumps are great for the cost and perform like that of a 190lph.

I am also a huge fan of the TT supra pumps in the 1g cars, factory fit and 280lph. Also, ive used these without an AFPR. Its not a MUST that you have one, i got 310 miles per tank with a stock FPR, 780's and a supra pump, and made over 400whp, but clearly its reccomended to use an AFPR with that kind of fuel delivery.

 

[Calan]

Aren't the TT Supra pumps a lot noisier and draw a lot more current than the aftermarket pumps? I don't have experience with one of them, but have heard that many times.

 

[jeff24680]

Really? All the reviews I have read praise the OEM Supra TT pump over the Wallys because they are so much quieter, and flow a good deal amount more?

 

[SBR Joe]

Aren't the TT Supra pumps a lot noisier and draw a lot more current than the aftermarket pumps? I don't have experience with one of them, but have heard that many times.

Yeah theyre super quiet and alot more reliable being an OEM denso pump. I could barely hear mine in my 1g, and it was fully gutted.

 

[Calan]

Well like I said, I have no personal experience with them. But I have seen it mentioned over on the Link and other forums that they draw (considerably?) more current and are noisier than a 255...if that is possible.

Just curious about it myself is all.

EDIT:

Hmmm... what about the current draw?

 

[SBR Joe]

Well like I said, I have no personal experience with them. But I have seen it mentioned over on the Link and other forums that they draw (considerably?) more current and are noisier than a 255...if that is possible.

Just curious about it myself is all.

EDIT:

Hmmm... what about the current draw?

Not sure about the draw, ive only ever used them with the fuel pump rewired myself...but did a few installs on customers cars using them minus the rewire and seemed fine. No more draw than a wineboro 255 would produce.

 

[4gfun]

I am just going to go with a 190 lph warlboro.

Now the other question comes...do you all suggest rewiring it?

This is for a 91 Galant VR4 by the way.

 

[knochgoon24]

I'm running a similar setup to what you're wanting to run.

Small 16g
25psi
93 Octane
Walbro 190 pump - rewired
PTE 680cc injectors

It works.

 

[4gfun]

I'm running a similar setup to what you're wanting to run.

Small 16g
25psi
93 Octane
Walbro 190 pump - rewired
PTE 680cc injectors

It works.

Good to know, I see the rewired part in there. Oh hey nice setup by the way!

Not looking forward to rewiring if I really should even though one of my professions has been electronic technician. Maybe that is why .

 

[Calan]

Not looking forward to rewiring ...

It's a piece of cake. The only PITA is running the wire back to the pump cleanly.

 

[pboglio]

660cc Denso's with a rewired Denso 150LPH pump. No problems with fuel at 44 lb/min, but I am hitting 96-97% duty cycle at higher rpms tuned out on a mix of pump gas/octane booster/xylene. I'd say a rewired Walbro 190 LPH and 650cc's should take you a long time to max out on a Big 16g, if ever.

 

[knochgoon24]

It's a piece of cake. The only PITA is running the wire back to the pump cleanly.

I ran mine through the wiring grommet in the passenger foot well, then down the wiring channel under the door trim, then behind the carpet near the rear passenger, then up to the fuel pump.

It sounds a lot harder to run than it actually is.
It took me an afternoon to get the wire ran and the stuff all soldered and connected.

 

[spawn87]

well i got the e3b16g with evo 560 injectors afpr and rewired stock pump im going to get the 255 by the end of the month hopefully so i can go get tunned i say get the 255 with afpr it never hurts to over build even if you never go bigger with your turbo.

when it comes to building any performance car it pays to not go cheap on fuel delivery.

since im in california i can only run 91octain can i get away with running higher thatn 16psi? (mods list on profile is current)

 

[Calan]

It sounds a lot harder to run than it actually is

Yeah... it isn't hard...just a PITA depending on how you have to run it.

 

[4gfun]

I missed the Evo 8-9 pump posts by the way. The thing is, I believe that the 2g pumps are direct bolt ons to the GVR4 and that the 1g pump won't work.

I wonder if the Evo 8-9 pump would be a hassle.

 

[jeffo]

Actually, for your goals I would have recommended 750cc injectors, unless you plan to jack up the base fuel pressure to the 2G/EVO 43psi. The 650cc injectors can flow as little as 635cc, and at the stock GVR-4 base fuel pressure that is only 585cc, not enough for 25psi IMHO.
As far as what fuelpump, I like to point people to the fuelpump tests that Jeff Lucius and RRE have done:
Stealth 316 - Fuel Pump Upgrade Guide
RRE Instructions
AMS has some good tests too that you should look at.
At 100% duty cycle, 650cc injectors @ 37psi base fuel pressure will need ~143 liters/hour of fuel. That corresponds almost exactly with what a non-rewired Walbro 190 pump can do at 58psi, which is 37psi base pressure + 21 psi boost. The problem is that at anything higher than 58psi you will have <145 liters/hour of fuel volume, so your injectors can outflow the pump. To be safe you should rewire it.
If it was me, I'd run the 255HP pump with an AFPR and 750cc injectors, and call it a day. Actually, I ran a Denso Supra pump, AFPR, and 750cc injectors on GVR-4 #1886/2000.

 

[Calan]

The 650cc injectors can flow as little as 635cc...

Unless they are some nice FIC 650's that actually flow a bit more than that, and were proven to work nicely on a custom Jeff O' chip.