fwd to awd?

[2gtalonjem]

I need some advise, heres what i have, a 95 talon tsi fwd in pretty good shape and a 95 gsx in pretty rough shape but the gsx is complete other that having a rough body (really rough) and im building the talon engine right now all in all i have roughly $1500 dollars in this project. Of course i would rather have a awd car, and sense my talon is a more solid car i would like to do a fwd to awd swap. As I read in other threads its easier to just buy an awd, but sense i have so little invested in these two cars, I would just like to make one kick ass car out of the two. If you have any advice please let me know. let me know if this could be done as well. thank you Jeff

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

...Drop the engine in the AWD, fix whatever damage there is, and do away with the FWD? The headache of trying to do a swap should be avoided if at all possible.

 

[hurricanecris24]

I would build the awd one and dd drive the tsi. That's just me thou I would rather have two cars than one

 

[TSI from Hell]

Let me google that for you

Now, to tell you whether or not you should attempt this, is not up to us. We don't know how much skills, time, money and resources you have to accomplish this.

What's wrong with the AWD? The body or the drive-train? If it's the body, is it just superficial (parts that can be easily swapped to fix it ie: hood, fenders, doors etc.) or is the things like the strut towers or the under carriage?

If it's just the drive-train or superficial body damage and or rust, I suggest simply fixing the AWD.

Buying an AWD shell in good shape is also a better option then attempting the swap BTW, you could probably find one for fairly cheap if you look around... Anyway; just throwing out ideas.

 

[bastarddsm]

2g awd swap is easy as ####. Well worth the work if you allready have a really nice 2g fwd. 1g awd swap is pretty difficult.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

2g awd swap is easy as ####. Well worth the work if you allready have a really nice 2g fwd. 1g awd swap is pretty difficult.

Typical of this forum, bunch of ####s that don't know shit telling people what to do.

I'm sorry, I guess we're all undereducated inbreeds who stand in front of a couple of DSMs, one being FWD and the other being AWD, both in basically the same situation and question " Should I just swap the FWD?! "

Unless the AWD is beat to hell and back with 5 foot dents across the sides, a motorcycle in the windshield, and a couple of dump-truck marks across the engine bay then it would be borderline moronic to go through the task of swapping the FWD using the AWD as a 'donor' car. If it is good condition, why the hell even consider it? The work is sitting right there, DONE.

I apologize for not knowing 'shit' and offering my 'opinion'.

 

[99gst_racer]

2g awd swap is easy as ####. Well worth the work if you allready have a really nice 2g fwd.

Agreed.

The AWD swap is cheaper, easier, and quicker than doing extensive body work. So, if the condition of the two bodies are as diametrical as you say they are, I'd say go for the swap.

 

[2gtalonjem]

I guess the AWD isnt in to bad of shape, ill just have to put alot of work putting on new body panels, but from the feed back i have received im going to have to agree why do all that work when its already done for me Thank you all for the suggestions

 

[Tanro]

Swapping the actual AWD bits is easier than pulling the engine to mount the AWD transmission...

I would just swap the FWD. Probably cheaper for insurance too.

 

[bastarddsm]

I guess the AWD isnt in to bad of shape, ill just have to put alot of work putting on new body panels, but from the feed back i have received im going to have to agree why do all that work when its already done for me Thank you all for the suggestions

Wow. Lazy. Its litterally swapping out two bolts and the rear subframe. If thats too much work, give up on cars.

 

[wkmitsu]

AWD swap done right with correct tools, knowledge and help = 4 to 5 days of work.

Full paint job with lots of body work done right with correct tools, knowledge and help = one to two months of work.

 

[AllWheelRS]

Wow everyone's pretty hostile today huh? YES FWD to AWD conversion is very time consuming and difficult IF you don't have a complete donor car. Since you do have a donor car with a complete AWD setup it's something most of us could do in a weekend with the help of a friend or a couple jacks at least. I personally would do the awd conversion, but thats because I try to avoid body work as much as possible and don't mind a good mechanical project.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Swapping the actual AWD bits is easier than pulling the engine to mount the AWD transmission...

I would just swap the FWD. Probably cheaper for insurance too.

I suppose I don't agree/understand this? In order for him to AWD swap the FWD... he would not only need to complete the component parts swaps from the AWD to the FWD, but he would then need to remove the FWD transmission, install the AWD Transmission, Transfer case, axles, and whatnot. So it'd be dropping a trans and bolting up an entirely different one with more components. So in this respect, he would be doing more work. Whereas simply working with the AWD, all he would be doing is installing an engine into the existing AWD, not mutilating that AWD and likely causing yet another AWD to fade from existence, and have more time to play with.

 

[bastarddsm]

Wow dude. Swapping in an AWD trans is nothing. Its no different than if he needed to change the clutch. Which he'll probably have to do anyway.

Destroying another AWD? jesus. Every day lots of em are sent to the crusher. Who cares? If one nice AWD come out of two so-so cars, then the community is better off anyway. Start with the nicest body you can. Its easy to make the mechanicals good, but there is not saving a mangled and rusty body.

In not very long, I'll be doing my second 1G AWD swap, and thats really really really hard to do compared to a 2G. Its just waaay easier to find clean low mile n/t 1g's

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Removing and installing a transmission is easy enough, yes, but unless the current AWD which is already.. AWD, is beat to death then what justifies tearing it apart, tearing a FWD apart, and swapping parts? If the AWD is beat to hell and back then yes, go for it. However, if it's just a couple of dents and dings here and there then it's just an enormous waste of time and effort for no real gain.

I am in no way questioning the difficulty of an AWD swap in a 2G as I have personally never done it, but it doesn't make sense to me to do so if you OWN a FACTORY AWD that's not beat beyond simple repair. Again, this is under the impression that there aren't toddler sized impact crater scattered all over the body.

 

[Tanro]

Okay, how many people have tryed to install an AWD trans without a transmission jack? its not very easy by your self.

Even with a friend it still takes an hour or two to remove the engine. 20 minutes to switch the remove the trans, switch the flywheel, and reinstall the trans, and another hour or two to drop it back in.

When we did the first GS-T(X) conversion in my shop it took us 5 Minutes to cut open the floor to get at the bolts. 20 to drop the subframe.

Another 30 or so to mount the subframe. Literally the hardest part of the whole thing was pulling the engine to swap the trans.

I suppose you could do it in the car but I just dont like the hassle.

I dont understand what the issue is with parting a wrecked/rough awd to make a FWD into an AWD. It keeps more AWDs on the road.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I've never pulled an engine to mount the trans...and the last AWD transmission we pulled to install a clutch in, we did it with a basic jack, me and 1 other person, and the total time to drop the trans and replace it excluding installing/uninstalling the clutch, axles, hoses, and whatnot was only about 30 - 40ish minutes. The rest is plug and play.

 

[rhodes2010]

Midwest cars can disintegrate if used year round. Salted roads destroy steel bodies.

If the GSX is beyond repair, then move the AWD driveline into the Talon.
I too like a good mechanical project.

Since you are using the Talon engine for this remember:

The Starter Plate and Flywheel from the trans/driveline must be used.

In a FWD car the flywheel and starter plate must be from the FWD trans/car.

In a AWD car the starter plate and flywheel come from the AWD trans/car.

In my AWD car someone used a FWD starter plate, not good.

 

[SpawnedX]

Just for the record, my 99 AWD insurance is cheaper than my 98 GST insurance, because it is an AWD car. So it will not be cheaper for insurance. XD!

If the body is rough, do the swap. You will need...

AWD Tranny
Transfer Case
Axles
Carrier Bearing
Driveshaft & All Mounting Components
Gas Tank
Rear Subframe from AWD
Rear Differential

I think that is all the major components, when you are doing it, it will be pretty obvious what you need. There is a little fabrication involved with drilling and some minor welding.

If the FWD is as clean as you say, it's worth it.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

It is definitely a good idea to make one nice car out of the two. Why spend the time and money on searching for and buying another one, changing titles and all of that other crap. Swap away. I think Spawned has you covered on everything you will need from the AWD car.

And when you have all the parts you need and the cleaner car up and running well, you can part the previously AWD car and make some cash. Win, win situation.

 

[SlipknotSmoothi]

Honestly, I plan on doing this with my 1g. I know it will be a headache and time consuming, and probably exspensive, but in the long run I think you'd come out ahead by doing the swap from the AWD to the FW. If you swap/repair the body of the old AWD, you'll get a lot of practice on how to repair.... the body. If you swap the AWD parts though, you'll most likely get a better understand of what the car goes through and how the parts operate. Either way, eventually they will wear down and have to be replaced. Just saying. Marriage is a costly head ache too.... but people get married all the time.

 

[gorf]

How much body work on the AWD?

My opinion, I would rather do the AWD swap then a LOT of body work. But to me the deciding factor would be RUST. Try to fix up a rust bucket awd or put the drive train in a clean fwd - to me that's a no brainer......

 

[dsmTripp]

How much body work on the AWD?

My opinion, I would rather do the AWD swap then a LOT of body work. But to me the deciding factor would be RUST. Try to fix up a rust bucket awd or put the drive train in a clean fwd - to me that's a no brainer......

Agreed.

I'm personally getting ready to do the awd swap on my spyder and my doner is a rusted under carriage 95 gsx. Now having two complete dsm's would be nice but the time and effort of fixing my rusted gsx is not even worth second guessing as what to do. Though my spyder is manual and the gsx is auto. Other than the transmission being different is there anything else different between the auto and manual because I'm keeping my spyder manual.

 

[gorf]

Agreed.

I'm personally getting ready to do the awd swap on my spyder and my doner is a rusted under carriage 95 gsx. Now having two complete dsm's would be nice but the time and effort of fixing my rusted gsx is not even worth second guessing as what to do. Though my spyder is manual and the gsx is auto. Other than the transmission being different is there anything else different between the auto and manual because I'm keeping my spyder manual.

Do some searches but I believe the rear end is a different gear ration also. So to keep the spyder manual you would need to get new transmission, transfer case and rear end. Might just as well find another donor with a manual transmission. the front Axles may be different also.

 

[evil tsi]

2G Spyder - FWD To AWD Conversion - Columbus DSM Forums