Fuel Injector and Fuel Pump Upgrade? [1G]

[Oblivion02]

Hey guys,

I checked out my fuel injectors yesterday, and the rubber tip of two of them is broken. I was considering a fuel injector upgrade, but I heard that i'd have to upgrade/update my ECU. Is this true? How does this work?

I was also considering a fuel pump, but not sure which pump to get.

What else should I get while I'm working in the FUEL department? Any recommendations?

 

[97gstjosh]

go to ebay look up autometer mechanical boost gauge.
Thats what I use a carbon fiber one that goes up to 35 psi I believe and shows vacuum too.
Cant beat the price
Well as far as listing more mods you dont need any until you know what turbo that you are going to get

 

[kenamond]

Get an Autometer mechanical boost gauge for $50 at AutoZone (that's what I have). Goes up to 30psi boost and down to (I think) 30in-Hg vaccuum. You'll also need to mount it in the interior somehow. Many get a 2- or 3-pod a-pillar gauge mount. You pop the stock plastic piece off, drill two holes, then screw the new one up with the gauges in it. But then you either have an empty pod (or two empty pods) until you get cash/need for other gauges, or you buy another gauge just to fill the hole (oil temp is a good 2nd one, as there is no stock gauge for it, and it'll tell you if the motor is overheating before you see it in coolant temps). I think the website for mine was gaugepods.com, but you can search around.

You don't need a fuel rail.

Stock injectors, stock fuel filter, walbro 190, rewire kit, and - if you can afford it - AFPR w/ gauge.

The 190 is said to overrun the stock FPR at low load and rpm when not much fuel is being delivered. But as load and rpm increase, you're delivering enough fuel to the engine that the FPR can cope with what's left over. I don't know where the threshold is. This may affect mileage if you do a lot of city driving.

 

[97gstjosh]

I have the dual pod instrument cluster bezel.
I love it plus other drivers cant see your Gauges
Oh Yeah I forgot you will never prob. need a fuel rail unless you ever want 450whp and up

 

[marshall13]

I have a rewired 255, 550cc injectors running 30psi. But I also noticed that the FPR is STOCK!!!! I'm glad I came across this post. So with the current setup that I have stated, would this be able to cause fuel cut? I know what traditionally causes it, too much air and not enough fuel, but unless the FPR is just blown out and freeflowing fuel, could the pressure build-up actually cause it to not get fuel or will it just cause an ungodly amount of flooding?

 

[marshall13]

Oh, and I have a MAFT if it makes any difference.

 

[zachs95awd]

ok after reading this whole thing that leads me to a few questions.. i am at that same stage building my car and i need to get new injectors..... now the main question bigger injectors or factory injectors???? i have a aftermarket turbo and a couple other modifications... and plan on running on about 17 pounds of boost hopefully dont have the money for a standalone right at the moment so what exactly might i need to do if i didnt give enough information ### just ask....

 

[zachs95awd]

wouldnt the 02 sensor take care of a little change with the bigger injectors??

 

[97gstjosh]

Talk about thread hijackers

I have a rewired 255, 550cc injectors running 30psi. But I also noticed that the FPR is STOCK!!!! I'm glad I came across this post. So with the current setup that I have stated, would this be able to cause fuel cut? I know what traditionally causes it, too much air and not enough fuel, but unless the FPR is just blown out and freeflowing fuel, could the pressure build-up actually cause it to not get fuel or will it just cause an ungodly amount of flooding?

What AFPR do you have? It should rise with boost if its one that rises on a 1:1 ratio
so there shouldnt be build up

ok after reading this whole thing that leads me to a few questions.. i am at that same stage building my car and i need to get new injectors..... now the main question bigger injectors or factory injectors???? i have a aftermarket turbo and a couple other modifications... and plan on running on about 17 pounds of boost hopefully dont have the money for a standalone right at the moment so what exactly might i need to do if i didnt give enough information ### just ask....

For 17 pounds I would go with FIC 65occ injectors to keep your IDC% down. You will need at least an AFC and get a rewired Walbro 190 pump. Boost gauge, and a MBC. A wideband o2 sensor for tuning too.

wouldnt the 02 sensor take care of a little change with the bigger injectors??

No it wouldnt its all about the ECU which is set to run on 450cc injectors

 

[kenamond]

marshall13: you're running 30psi boost on 550cc injectors? You also need the AFPR for a 255 fuel pump. If you overrun the FPR, the pressure in the rail is too high, and you inject too much fuel. I just don't see how you're running that high of boost on 550s unless the overrun is somehow saving your ass.

 

[Oblivion02]

@97gstjosh -> Yeah. Aren't I the lucky one? Lol

Get an Autometer mechanical boost gauge for $50 at AutoZone (that's what I have). Goes up to 30psi boost and down to (I think) 30in-Hg vaccuum. You'll also need to mount it in the interior somehow. Many get a 2- or 3-pod a-pillar gauge mount. You pop the stock plastic piece off, drill two holes, then screw the new one up with the gauges in it. But then you either have an empty pod (or two empty pods) until you get cash/need for other gauges, or you buy another gauge just to fill the hole (oil temp is a good 2nd one, as there is no stock gauge for it, and it'll tell you if the motor is overheating before you see it in coolant temps). I think the website for mine was gaugepods.com, but you can search around.

You don't need a fuel rail.

Stock injectors, stock fuel filter, walbro 190, rewire kit, and - if you can afford it - AFPR w/ gauge.

The 190 is said to overrun the stock FPR at low load and rpm when not much fuel is being delivered. But as load and rpm increase, you're delivering enough fuel to the engine that the FPR can cope with what's left over. I don't know where the threshold is. This may affect mileage if you do a lot of city driving.

@ Kenamond -> This is probably what I'm going to do. I PMd you a few questions.

@Thread hijackers -> I'm not trying to be rude about it, but you could probably get better replies if you started different threads. That way people can answer to your specific question. Not that I mind, but just a suggestion. Feel free to keep asking in this thread.

Just to finish it off: I'm going to go with stock injectors, stock fuel filter, walbro 190, rewire, AFPR w/ Gauge and an AUTOMETER BOOST GAUGE

Thanks to everyone for their help.

 

[97gstjosh]

No problem

 

[Calan]

marshall13: you're running 30psi boost on 550cc injectors? You also need the AFPR for a 255 fuel pump. If you overrun the FPR, the pressure in the rail is too high, and you inject too much fuel. I just don't see how you're running that high of boost on 550s unless the overrun is somehow saving your ass.

I was wondering the same thing (was actually about to type it when I saw this )

30psi sounds WAY high with that setup. What are you using for a logger?

BTW - Hi from a neighbor

 

[97gstjosh]

marshall13: you're running 30psi boost on 550cc injectors? You also need the AFPR for a 255 fuel pump. If you overrun the FPR, the pressure in the rail is too high, and you inject too much fuel. I just don't see how you're running that high of boost on 550s unless the overrun is somehow saving your ass.

I didnt even notice that when I read it over. I was tired. Thats not good

I have a rewired 255, 550cc injectors running 30psi. But I also noticed that the FPR is STOCK!!!! I'm glad I came across this post. So with the current setup that I have stated, would this be able to cause fuel cut? I know what traditionally causes it, too much air and not enough fuel, but unless the FPR is just blown out and freeflowing fuel, could the pressure build-up actually cause it to not get fuel or will it just cause an ungodly amount of flooding?

Why are you running 30 pounds on 560cc injectors? I bet your IDC% is 567%
Also why are you running 30 pounds period on a big 16g? What does it eventually drop to?

 

[marshall13]

Yeah, my FPR is freaking HOLLOW. I found this out when when I was checking all of my fuel components due to a bad shortage of fuel at 1,500 rpm along with some ignition issues. Just for the record, though, this car was built for drag racing BEFORE I bought it. It also ran better then. They were running race fuel all the time in this thing. I had to "detune" it. Right now, though, I have a blown out BOV so I am running 3 psi. I guess the turbo is sporting better turbines or something, because it hits 12psi, builds slowly until 4,500 rpm, and then flings over to 30 psi and HOLDS! (when it runs right) But since I have to run 91 octane, fuel cut is an issue, so I don't race it and don't spool it out. It runs like crap right now. Timing is out I think, ignition breakup is bad after about half throttle, and I have managed to foul brand new NGK spark plugs due to the fuel being near impossible to get right. But now I got a buddy from OKC!!!! I will put steak on the grill and you can come down and help me figure this thing out.

 

[marshall13]

By the way, my current logging setup is a Snap On Scan Tool and a notepad. My datalogger that I had ran out of batteries and erased off of the palm device it was in. Right now I also have to rely on my Apex'i Auto Timer A/F mode to watch my fuel. My car has started falling apart since about 3 weeks after I got it, and I can't get the people who built it and owned it to tell me what's in it.

I am currently taking "donations" to rebuild it CORRECTLY.

 

[97gstjosh]

Yeah, my FPR is freaking HOLLOW. I found this out when when I was checking all of my fuel components due to a bad shortage of fuel at 1,500 rpm along with some ignition issues. Just for the record, though, this car was built for drag racing BEFORE I bought it. It also ran better then. They were running race fuel all the time in this thing. I had to "detune" it. Right now, though, I have a blown out BOV so I am running 3 psi. I guess the turbo is sporting better turbines or something, because it hits 12psi, builds slowly until 4,500 rpm, and then flings over to 30 psi and HOLDS! (when it runs right) But since I have to run 91 octane, fuel cut is an issue, so I don't race it and don't spool it out. It runs like crap right now. Timing is out I think, ignition breakup is bad after about half throttle, and I have managed to foul brand new NGK spark plugs due to the fuel being near impossible to get right. But now I got a buddy from OKC!!!! I will put steak on the grill and you can come down and help me figure this thing out.

By the way, my current logging setup is a Snap On Scan Tool and a notepad. My datalogger that I had ran out of batteries and erased off of the palm device it was in. Right now I also have to rely on my Apex'i Auto Timer A/F mode to watch my fuel. My car has started falling apart since about 3 weeks after I got it, and I can't get the people who built it and owned it to tell me what's in it.

I am currently taking "donations" to rebuild it CORRECTLY.

I would have no clue where to tell you to start.
Time to tear it apart and get to it
I have $3.56 That I could donate to that fund
Give me a break remember Im a DSMer
= no cash

 

[kenamond]

Yeah, my FPR is freaking HOLLOW. I found this out when when I was checking all of my fuel components due to a bad shortage of fuel at 1,500 rpm along with some ignition issues. Just for the record, though, this car was built for drag racing BEFORE I bought it. It also ran better then. They were running race fuel all the time in this thing. I had to "detune" it. Right now, though, I have a blown out BOV so I am running 3 psi. I guess the turbo is sporting better turbines or something, because it hits 12psi, builds slowly until 4,500 rpm, and then flings over to 30 psi and HOLDS! (when it runs right) But since I have to run 91 octane, fuel cut is an issue, so I don't race it and don't spool it out. It runs like crap right now. Timing is out I think, ignition breakup is bad after about half throttle, and I have managed to foul brand new NGK spark plugs due to the fuel being near impossible to get right. But now I got a buddy from OKC!!!! I will put steak on the grill and you can come down and help me figure this thing out.

I'd park the car until you:
a) Verify what injectors you have
b) Verify what fuel pump you have
c) Verify what boost you're running
d) Replace your FPR and pick a part that will work with the FP you verified you have in (b) (AFPR for a 190 or 255 FP or stock FPR for stock FP)
e) Correct your fuel setup based on a-d (if AFPR, correct base fuel pressure)
f) Correct the boost level if it *is* 30psi (that's ridiculous on 550s; maybe if you had 1000cc injectors)
g) Fix your logger
h) Do a compression test and see if you already destroyed your motor.
i) Read the VFAQ, Stage 0 and 1 mods section, Tech articles sections, and any thread related to the parts you find out your car has, then save yourself from breaking something you can't afford to fix.

And, ===no money

 

[marshall13]

See, that's what I have been trying to do is verify all the parts that is on this car. I know the injectors are 550cc's, I know that my fuel pump is a 255lph because I just put a new one in, I know that prior to my ignition problems I was running 30psi with no problems, and I know that it has a MAFT with 3" MAF and a new TPS. Other than that, I cannot get these guys that did the work prior to me buying the car to give me any other information as to what the heck they did. I am NOT going to deal with Abel Racing again. This is not my first turbocharged car (04 GTI 1.8T, 89 Mustang twinned), but it is my first DSM. I have to wait on donations and budget grants to tear it down and rebuild the car, though.

I know you guys thought the "donation" thing was a joke, but this car is the attraction of a ministry that I am starting called Christian Car Club. I thank you guys for all of the help you have given me. This is probably the most useful and helpful website I have ever been blessed to be a part of. I am shooting for a $15,000 budget to redo the WHOLE car, but I am about $13,000 short right now. I hope that I will be able to come through close to some of you guys when it is finished and get some face to face suggestions this summer, if not then next. Thanks again, and when the build starts I will keep all of you updated.

 

[97gstjosh]

See, that's what I have been trying to do is verify all the parts that is on this car. I know the injectors are 550cc's, I know that my fuel pump is a 255lph because I just put a new one in, I know that prior to my ignition problems I was running 30psi with no problems, and I know that it has a MAFT with 3" MAF and a new TPS. Other than that, I cannot get these guys that did the work prior to me buying the car to give me any other information as to what the heck they did. I am NOT going to deal with Abel Racing again. This is not my first turbocharged car (04 GTI 1.8T, 89 Mustang twinned), but it is my first DSM. I have to wait on donations and budget grants to tear it down and rebuild the car, though.

I know you guys thought the "donation" thing was a joke, but this car is the attraction of a ministry that I am starting called Christian Car Club. I thank you guys for all of the help you have given me. This is probably the most useful and helpful website I have ever been blessed to be a part of. I am shooting for a $15,000 budget to redo the WHOLE car, but I am about $13,000 short right now. I hope that I will be able to come through close to some of you guys when it is finished and get some face to face suggestions this summer, if not then next. Thanks again, and when the build starts I will keep all of you updated.

Thats really cool man.
I wish we had something like that out here.
Def. keep in touch with me. I will lend you any advice you need or want.
Dont know of any Christians out here with cars like ours.
If I had money I would donate something.
God Bless man and keep in touch

 

[marshall13]

Yeah I definitely will. I don't know any of you really, but you are the only ones I can rely on for sound advice. The best mechanic in town where I live won't even get near my car.

 

[kenamond]

See, that's what I have been trying to do is verify all the parts that is on this car. I know the injectors are 550cc's, I know that my fuel pump is a 255lph because I just put a new one in, I know that prior to my ignition problems I was running 30psi with no problems, and I know that it has a MAFT with 3" MAF and a new TPS. Other than that, I cannot get these guys that did the work prior to me buying the car to give me any other information as to what the heck they did. I am NOT going to deal with Abel Racing again. This is not my first turbocharged car (04 GTI 1.8T, 89 Mustang twinned), but it is my first DSM. I have to wait on donations and budget grants to tear it down and rebuild the car, though.

I know you guys thought the "donation" thing was a joke, but this car is the attraction of a ministry that I am starting called Christian Car Club. I thank you guys for all of the help you have given me. This is probably the most useful and helpful website I have ever been blessed to be a part of. I am shooting for a $15,000 budget to redo the WHOLE car, but I am about $13,000 short right now. I hope that I will be able to come through close to some of you guys when it is finished and get some face to face suggestions this summer, if not then next. Thanks again, and when the build starts I will keep all of you updated.

If you have 550s, do yourself and your ministry a favor and turn the boost down to 15 until you get a logger. You CAN'T run 30psi on 550s safely. I'm not kidding here. And I wouldn't be suprised at all if you've already done serious damage to your motor. If you want it to fail catastrophically so that you have to spend even more money that you don't have, go for it. I'm astounded that you'd continue to abuse the car in this way when you've worked on turbo cars before. It's extremely easy to turn down your boost, as you should already know, so why don't you just turn it down?

And if you don't believe that this isn't a good idea, just post to the forum with a title like "Is 30psi on 550 injectors okay?" and see what feedback you get.

 

[97gstjosh]

Yeah I definitely will. I don't know any of you really, but you are the only ones I can rely on for sound advice. The best mechanic in town where I live won't even get near my car.

Yeah thats bad thats how all normal mechanics are though they dont want to get involved and screw it up anymore than it already is. Unless you take it to a performance shop you are most likely on your own. PM me anytime with questions or if you want advice. I will get back to you.

If you have 550s, do yourself and your ministry a favor and turn the boost down to 15 until you get a logger. You CAN'T run 30psi on 550s safely. I'm not kidding here. And I wouldn't be suprised at all if you've already done serious damage to your motor. If you want it to fail catastrophically so that you have to spend even more money that you don't have, go for it. I'm astounded that you'd continue to abuse the car in this way when you've worked on turbo cars before. It's extremely easy to turn down your boost, as you should already know, so why don't you just turn it down?

And if you don't believe that this isn't a good idea, just post to the forum with a title like "Is 30psi on 550 injectors okay?" and see what feedback you get.

I agree with Kenamond. turn the Boost down to 15psi. That will help alot if your still driving this car. And will save you a motor

 

[marshall13]

I have a blown out BOV. No boost, and I have ignition breakup after half throttle. I still drive it, but only in town (45mph tops). I agree with Kenamod, too. It's time to tear this thing apart and start over.

 

[ontario AWD]

First of all,hijacking threads is not cool.To answer your question,The pump is usually easy to install if you soak the sending unit bolts with a little weasel piss a day before,the wiring is good,and as to if it work well with stock parts,please reread this thread.

 

[97gstjosh]

First of all,hijacking threads is not cool.To answer your question,The pump is usually easy to install if you soak the sending unit bolts with a little weasel piss a day before,the wiring is good,and as to if it work well with stock parts,please reread this thread.

Wow did you really just reopen this old thread to just post that?
Im sure everyone here has figured out what you just posted since this was about 10 months ago when this thread stopped getting posts.