Fresh Start Motor

[Mike_96eclipse]

Ok, so the whole reason for this post starts out when I bought my '96 GST 3 years ago. I drove it for all of 3 months and was then Deployed overseas with the military. When I got home my brother went to jump start my car, and put the jumper cables on backwards. And the problems haven't stopped since.

I had to replace my ECU because he fried it. I have replaced the entire passenger side steering assembly due to some sort of failure that caused a joint to snap and the car dropped on my rim. Next thing to go wrong was the final draw and the end of my car. The crankshaft almost fell out of the engine. It has about an inch of play to it that I can pull it in and out of the block.

And here I am, and year and a half later since the engine was deemed a failure with a car I have been holding onto with the hopes to some day be able to fix it.

Well I decided I am going to get the ball rolling on the right foot, and instead of buying a used engine from Ebay or other websites I want to make the car what I dreamed it would be.

I have been looking up different blocks, heads, motor parts. I've been studying and reading everything I can for the past year trying to decide what I'm going to do. I've come up with a sort of shopping list that I've been comprising to build my ultimate dream Eclipse. I'm looking for ideas, suggestions, ways to lower the cost, and just general advice of whether I'm going way overboard with different parts.

List I've comprised so far:

Block - found at www.slowboyracing.com
Forged Manley I-beam rods
Lightened & Balanced Crank
Arias Pistons
Carrillo Rods 8.8:1 compression

Head - found at www.dsmtuners.com
Valve Job
Stage 4 port (not sure what that means yet)
New stem seals
SS swirl polish, undercut valves (not sure on that either)
New Guides
Crower Springs
Titanium Retainers
Decked Head Surface
New exaust studs

Cam Gears - Set of HKS cam gears, fully adjustable

Cams - HKS Cams. 264 intake, 272 exaust (I'm not sure what the numbers mean, it's what was suggested by the company)

Lightweight Crankshaft pulley

Kevlar belts

Greddy 550cc injectors

Injen intake manifold

Thats about as far as I got before I started getting ahead of myself and decided to look for some help on the matter to get opinions of people with alot more experience at building a sturdy street race engine. I plan on taking this to the track when I am completed with it, so I want it to be able to hold up under the strain. Any help would be outstanding. The cost isn't really the weighing factor in the end since this will be a project to work on over several months if not 1-2 years. I've waited 3 years, whats another 2. Thanks for your help in advance.

-Mike

 

[endeffect0]

I would personally go with a stroker kit on a 6bolt if your starting from scratch anyway.

what turbo are you planing on using, a lot of your engine buildup and supporting mods will depend on what turbo your planing to use and how much power and boost your looking to get.

I know your probably doing this out of love for the car you have but have you considered looking into picking up an awd with a blow motor and building that up or do u just wanna stick with the front wheel drive?

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

I would run over ALL your wiring after the switch from Neg to +. Cars dont like that

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

Well in reguards to buying a GSX, I really wish I would have when I started out. But I didn't realise what I was getting into at the time. And chances of selling it will be when the car burns to the ground. It's because of this car that I met my wife... I honestly couldn't get rid of it unless I had no other choice.

In terms of Turbos I was looking at a few different models. One that sort of caught my eye was the GReddy TD05H-18G. I'm looking to try and run about 26 psi at max boost to keep up with my high revving I do while on the track. I raced the car a bit in Daytona before I deployed, and I noticed I have a tendancy to run my gears a bit longer in the higher revs so I would like to get the most out of it that I can since I don't drop into low rpm's very often.

And in reguards to the wiring checks from the battery. I've already replaced almost my entire wiring harness from battery to computer, including the entire fuse panel in the engine bay that fried.

 

[c4uldr0n]

550cc injectors are a good start, but I'm guessing you'll max those out VERY quick... I vote upgrade those

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

I was looking at some 720cc injectors, but I had thought that would be a bit much to start out with. If I start out with the larger injectors but not the full amount of power coming through the engine will it cause any problems with the fuel/air mixtures? I should be able to regulate them down to a lower fuel flow with the ECU right? Thanks for the tip, I'll make a note of it.

 

[turbosax2]

I was looking at some 720cc injectors, but I had thought that would be a bit much to start out with. If I start out with the larger injectors but not the full amount of power coming through the engine will it cause any problems with the fuel/air mixtures? I should be able to regulate them down to a lower fuel flow with the ECU right? Thanks for the tip, I'll make a note of it.

How are you planning on tuning? Are you looking at dsmlink or safc or...? If you decide to go with dsmlink, go with the biggest injectors you can, something like 950's or 1000's - the reason for this is because dsmlink is able to compensate pretty easily for the bigger injectors - also, there isn't a huge price difference between 550's and 1000's really. Upgrade once and do it right the first time.

 

[endeffect0]

I know what you mean when you talk about your old car, my first car was a 94 camaro, v6.. automatic, cant bring myself to part with it even though its in no way worth keeping any more. I'm collecting parts and hoping to do a full conversion over to a small block including every peice of the drive train. its in no way worth it.. but sometimes that doesn't matter...

26lbs is a lot of boost you are defiantly gonna wanna be in the 700's with your injectors and you'll need a fuel pump to support it as well as pressure regulator ect.

If your not going stroker and you really wanna rev what about a de-stroker kit hahaha, I've seen a few people do that for autoX and they really rev, but thats autoX and its quite different from track racing...

have you given any thought to engine management yet?

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

I haven't really looked into ECU tuning much at the moment. I had a shop in Sarasota, FL tune my ECU for me last time. I looked up the DSMLink software on their website and was actually amazed at everything it can do. I definately think that will be a must have for track use so I can tune my own car at the track without the need for a bunch of extra people or equipment. I'm going to go see what I can find out about that, I'll definately go with the biggest injectors I can get my hands on if thats the case. Thank you for the advice and insight on something I totally overlooked.

With another note, I was wondering if I should go with the 2.0 4G63 block, or opt for the 2.3 downtuned 4G64 stroked motor? Is there a big difference besides the longer stroke? I'm going to try and order the block/head next month. I've been saving for several months now for this project and have roughly $9,000 to kick the project off, and I'm saving an extra 6k a year to work on this car. So any other suggestions or information will be much appreciated and written down in my notebook to keep track of. Thanks again.

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

In reguards to the fuel pump, what rating should I think of going after? I never really did much with fuel management before. First time I've tried to tune my eclipse beyond the few bolt on parts I added when I first got it.

And I definately replied right after about the destroked engines heh. So the advantage to that would be the higher revving than the standard 2.0? I'd much rather go that route if it's possible. And one other question I was having a hard time thinking about...the stock transmission in the car. Will it be able to handle more than say 500hp to the crank? I had a problem with my clutch slipping every once in a while during higher rpm shifting, since I have this problem with letting go of the gas pedal while I'm shifting. So I opted to upgrade the clutch to something more stable with a lighter flywheel. Hopeing I can run the stock transmission, but I have a feeling it's going to need some updates also in the process.

Thanks for the help so far, I've got a few things decided upon now that is helping. Granted I only have the injectors, ecu control, and possible turbo selection so far

I thought about what you said with the higher revving long block engines and did some researching. With slowboy's 2.0L Long block they sell with head I'm wondering if that would be a smarter idea to think about for someone in my situation that doesn't know the in depth knowledge about building a motor block up yet. Here's the link: http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1897&

They also have a much more advanced engine, but I'm not sure that it's what I'm looking for. I'm going to email tech support at SB and try to get some information about the listed block. And also check on the much higher revving, but alas more expensive motor: http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=2535

Any suggestions on either of those, or the other engines they have set up and listed I would love the help and information. Once again, thank you for the help you've offered so far.

 

[Dagda]

for the fuel pump a Walbro 255 should be sufficient.

as far as the transmission goes, id ship it to Shepherd or TRE and have them do a Stage 2 rebuild on it, and put in an ACT 2600 clutch and fidanza lightened flywheel.

and definitely go with DSMlink...expensive as hell, but it will definitely save you problems down the road.

CJ

 

[John_GST]

In my opinion you are going to have to go with bigger injectors for sure than the 550cc. DSM link would be the best mod you can get I gaurentee it. Being able to tune your car in an instance is going to help out so much at the track. Also I dont know if you have, but try giving FFWD a try they make some awesome engines and I'm sure they can help you in the right direction that you are wanting to go. Here is a link for you.

http://ffwdconnection.com/

All there engines start out at six bolt blocks and you can decide if you wanna stay 2.0 or go stroker also.

As for the turbo why not go with the evoIII 16g it has almost the same potentials as the 18g that you are looking at. I will vouch for the evo 16g its a great turbo, but if you do plan to run 25 pounds of boost than maybe the e3 isn't the right one for you its good at 20-21.

Well I hope this helps you out good luck.

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

Thanks for the help John. I spoke with Darren through email since I'm currently deployed, and he said he can probably set me up with something. We decided on using the FP Race Manifold with the FP red dsm turbo to run the car up into the 600hp range. I've also located and currently in the process of purchasing a set of 880cc Precision Turbo Eng injectors. My best friend back home is taking my car to the shop to pull the motor out and we're having it shipped to a shop in Daytona to be reworked. Not sure on the specifics of the transmission job, my friend Mike is handling that for me. We've put a ACT 2900 clutch on order, should arrive at my house in 2-3 weeks. A few other parts I've put on order to get the project started, and to ease the burning sensation in my pocket was the Walbro 255 fuel pump that Dagda suggested, with a Venom dsm rail. So far the new engine parts has cost $1,116 plus shipping.

The turbo and mani are going to be ordered next month if Darren says it will work alright with the motor he's going to build for me. I'll be back in a few days to ask some more questions about how to set some more things up. Thanks for all the help you guys have given, it's helped alot in making decisions and finding parts I've needed.

Mike

 

[John_GST]

Glad that I could help out. Good luck.

 

[snox135]

I would go with the Supra pump and you don't need the fuel rail.

 

[Mike_96eclipse]

Update on the new motor!!!

After emailing Darren for the past two days we came up with a build for the engine. Here's the list of goodies being put together starting next month!

SHORTBLOCK
1. Cryoed block, crank, rods, and pistons (6-bolt crank platform)
2. Ross Custom Racing Pistons w/rings (8.5:1 ratio/.020 overbore)
3. Crower Racing Rods
4. ARP main studs
5. Butcher 2.4 Stroker Crank (virgin crank knife-edged and lightened 6-7 pounds...competition precision balanced)
6. All new freeze plugs
7. Balance shafts removed
8. New oil pump front cover w/ new bolts and Mitsu gasket
9. New oil drive gears
10. Line boring, decking, boring, and plateau honing of block
11. Assembly of shortblock
12. Balancing/blueprinting of rotating assembly
13. File fitment of rings
14. All new Clevite bearings
15. Top Fuel hard anodized piston treatment
16. Dipstick tube
17. Pick up screen w/bolts
18. New oil pan with stainless steel bolts
19. Rear crank seal plate w/new bolts
20. Crank bolt and washer
21. All new bolts for components

HEAD
1. Street Dominator head (site has in detail what it includes)
2. New big bore lifters
3. FFWD DKS2 cams
4. Head “Wings” (timing cover support parts)
5. ARP Head Studs
6. Cleaned and inspected rocker arms (set of 16)
7. Cam seals
8. Fidanza adjustable cam gears
9. New rocker cover gaskets

MISC
1. Mitsu MLS headgasket
2. 1G Water Pump
3. Timing Belt Kit
4. New Timing Belt Cover (modded for 6 bolt use)
5. Timing Belt Undercovers
6. Forward facing oil filter bracket
7. Intake gasket
8. Powercoating of rocker cover, CAS cover, tstat outlet, and dipstick tube (Violent Voilet) 9. All new fasteners/bolts for the build
10. 1g/2g CAS wiring harness
11. tstat housing with water outlet
12. Refurbbed water pipe (1g)
13. 6 bolt ACT flywheel
14. Power steering bracket
15. Modded motor mount for timing belt side of motor
16. 1g CAS
17. 1g coil pack
18. Degreeing in of motor (setting cam to crank phasing)

Cancelled order on the fuel rail since I was told I don't need it.
Ordered the Mani and Turbo yesterday
And the transmission is being shipped out Monday to be worked on.

Happy to say, the project is coming together nicely! Thank you all for all the help and advice, I appreciate it very very much. I'll be back when I have some more news, and maybe some pictures of the motor swap

Mike

 

[Locutus78]

for the fuel pump a Walbro 255 should be sufficient.

as far as the transmission goes, id ship it to Shepherd or TRE and have them do a Stage 2 rebuild on it, and put in an ACT 2600 clutch and fidanza lightened flywheel.

and definitely go with DSMlink...expensive as hell, but it will definitely save you problems down the road.

CJ

Speaking from experience, you DO NOT want a John Shepherd FWD transmission. Unless you want to be replacing it in 4 months, due to his inability to build a FWD transmission that can handle torque! Shoot me a PM with your email address if you would like to see pics, of his supposed Stage 2 with all the "bells, whistles, and upgrades", looks like.