Frame Damage-for those that have experience

[dirty sanchez]

Hello, and thanks in advance for any and all advice. This is a pretty heavy question i have here though im almost certain i know the answer in the end. I have a 97 eclipse gs and after swerving to prevent hitting a deer smashed/drove over a curb and set off the airbags and everything (thankfully no other vehicles or passengers involved-just me). Thing is, because the trunk has about a cm gap all the way around above the tails and (not sure if the sunroof was open or not before the accident) the sunroof may have opened as well due to the accident i believe that the car may have lost its line. My question is, what do you guys think on the subject as well as any advice if this is the case. I'm thinking there's no repair if it did in fact mess with the frame, so the car would have to be parted out, but looking forward to hearing some better news. Again thanks for any and all help.
-Steve

 

[Defiant]

Bent unibody = totalled car.

Despite this, some repair them. And there you are.

 

[n0c7]

Some sites sell the front radiator support frame piece but I don't know whats involved in replacement, probably cutting+welding, and that would only fix your front end depending on how damaged it was.

 

[2-0turbo]

Bent unibody = totalled car.

Despite this, some repair them. And there you are.

Not true. Go talk to a body shop. Pulling a car gets into some skilled work, but it is NOT rocket science. I've pulled them in a garage before with only hydraulics. Shops with complete beds and multiple towers can do magic. It is just metal. Cars are actually quite flexible and it takes surprisingly little to move them past their elastic limit.

 

[Defiant]

Cars are actually quite flexible and it takes surprisingly little to move them past their elastic limit.

And, destroy them forever. Hence the consideration of legislation making it a crime to "straighten" a unibody automobile.

Still, without pictures, we're arguing in the dark.

I'm very unsettled about crashing into a curb (Front-end?) and having the trunk be ill-fitting. And the sunroof opened? Hm.

 

[dirty sanchez]

thanks to all those that have replied so far. I will get pictures for all tomorrow. The thing is, there is no visible damage to the car other than the tires seem to be off camber/toe as well as the trunk with that slight gap, leading me to believe that when i hit the curb it twisted the frame and thats what caused the trunk to pop like that (and maybe the sunroof, but like i said i dont recall if i had it opened prior to the accident). The trunk still closes as well, just has an even (~1cm gap) across the top of the tails...tomorrow i'll have pictures so until then thanks again for the help

 

[2-0turbo]

And, destroy them forever. Hence the consideration of legislation making it a crime to "straighten" a unibody automobile.

Still, without pictures, we're arguing in the dark.

I'm very unsettled about crashing into a curb (Front-end?) and having the trunk be ill-fitting. And the sunroof opened? Hm.

Defiant, I know you are a sharp guy from your posts--I've been on this board since the beginning, but you really do not know what you are talking about. "Straightening" a car does not destroy it! It is just metal. Have you ever repaired an airplane? Do they get "totalled?" Sometimes, but for minor crunches, like with cars, you pull the metal back into the correct shape, replace anything that has plastically deflected and go on with life. Your attitude towards a rebuilt or repaired vehicle is not atypical, but your comments above only fuel the misinformation circulating through the public and the internet about this topic.

If a car's strut tower was originally positioned at X, Y, Z and you put it back in that same spot X, Y, Z, what is the problem with that? How do you think cars are built? A collection of stampings, forgings and castings fastened together. If the front radiator support is bent, you roughly pull it back into shape, you drill out the spot welds, put a new piece on (usually OEM from the dealer) and then reweld at factory spot weld locations. What is different about what you've done and how the factory originally assembled the piece? It isn't.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this with you. We obviously have a difference in opinion, which we are both entitled to. But your post above is simply not true. I've personally fixed two different "wrecked" cars and they drove as fine as any other vehicle that just came off the showroom floor. I do damn fine work and I would challenge anyone other than a body guy to even be able to tell it has been "straightened." I of course fully disclose the history of the vehicle when I sell it--not out of obligation, but because I'm proud of the work I've done. Take a look for yourself.

EDIT: Grammar

 

[dirty sanchez]

thanks again everyone for all your help...im now sure that the frame is bent after putting it up on a lift and seeing the scrunched rail on the right rear. I'm going to be taking the pictures to the local shop with a lazer frame machine and see how much damage its going to cost me as far as $ goes. The above pictures are amazing worksmanship by the way and i'd like to get in touch with you if youd like email me or aim [email protected]
thanks again,
Steve

 

[alex99gst]

I can take an O'Charley's fork and bend it in half 36 times and make it as straight as it was to begin with, but that doesn't make it just as strong as before.

 

[2-0turbo]

I can take an O'Charley's fork and bend it in half 36 times and make it as straight as it was to begin with, but that doesn't make it just as strong as before.

The original poster asked for feedback from those with EXPERIENCE in fixing frame (or unibody) damage on an automobile. Although an O'Charley's fork and an automobile structure are both "metal" and both ferrous, they are not the same thing. I could go into the specific differences between cheap Chinese SST and modern HSLA steels, but I'm afraid the subtleties would be lost on you.

I have experience fixing "wrecked" cars. The two examples above were mine I did entirely on my own, but I've been involved with another 1/2 dozen or so from my friends who dabble in this same activity we call a hobby on the side. I know a thing or two about it.

I'm sorry, but bending a fork back and forth does not qualify you to provide guidance on straightening automobiles. Unless you have other credentials you've not mentioned, my suggestion is not to provide advice on a topic you have little, if any firsthand knowledge. A famous quote from an unknown author comes to mind: "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." This applies to typewritten prose as well. I'm outta this topic before I get reprimanded....

 

[Defiant]

Defiant, I know you are a sharp guy from your posts--I've been on this board since the beginning, but you really do not know what you are talking about. "Straightening" a car does not destroy it! It is just metal.

And it fatigues.

Have you ever repaired an airplane? Do they get "totalled?"

No, although I did work for the only shop in the East Bay that was FAA certified for aircraft inspection, and did a few jobs for Saturn Airlines testing their Hercules' nose strut and aileron hinges, I've never made it to what used to be A&P Certified, and which I last heard was A&E.

Sometimes, but for minor crunches, like with cars, you pull the metal back into the correct shape, replace anything that has plastically deflected and go on with life.

For streamlining parts, yes. But for structural?

Your attitude towards a rebuilt or repaired vehicle is not atypical, but your comments above only fuel the misinformation circulating through the public and the internet about this topic.

That's quite valid.

If a car's strut tower was originally positioned at X, Y, Z and you put it back in that same spot X, Y, Z, what is the problem with that? How do you think cars are built? A collection of stampings, forgings and castings fastened together.

Stamping and forging isn't the same as bending more than once in a given direction, or past its yield point and back.

If the front radiator support is bent, you roughly pull it back into shape, you drill out the spot welds, put a new piece on (usually OEM from the dealer) and then reweld at factory spot weld locations. What is different about what you've done and how the factory originally assembled the piece? It isn't.

I agree with that. But it's not like crushing a frame rail and yanking it back. It's the paper clip bending and breaking thing.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this with you.

Nor I with you. It's too fatiguing.

We obviously have a difference in opinion, which we are both entitled to.

Quite true.

But your post above is simply not true. I've personally fixed two different "wrecked" cars and they drove as fine as any other vehicle that just came off the showroom floor. I do damn fine work and I would challenge anyone other than a body guy to even be able to tell it has been "straightened." I of course fully disclose the history of the vehicle when I sell it--not out of obligation, but because I'm proud of the work I've done. Take a look for yourself.

I don't hesitate to say that your work isn't what the usual body shop gorilla does against a clock at a job he's either bored to death with or outright hates. Not three in thirty shops will take the care to get a body line to come out that even, unless it just happens to bolt up that way.
And no, this kind of discussion isn't the sort that'll get you in "trouble" on this site. I don't have any qualm about being corrected by someone who's right.
For the far greater majority of shops, I don't have much interest in driving a seriously-damaged car they've repaired.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

I had a slight accident about a month ago where I rear ended a guy. Had to cut and weld up a new front radiator support. Hood, fender and popup headlight from a junkyard. First time I have ever done anything like that before and proof that you can do it yourself with success.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190669