For those of us that dont have money to waste

[Jarnutt]

Why is it, whenever I look into upgrading any aspect of my car, I'm blasted with a metric dickload of posts and topics demanding that you don't do anything to your car without purchasing dsmlink, getting a dyno, or a vafc2 or afr, OR all of the above?

All I wanted to know, is if I could run an e316g on my stock injectors. That's it. And I search, and I find, people are assholes with reeeeeally deep pockets. Many people have had the same question as me, and they have all been answered the same way, you need 550s, you need dsmlink, you need wideband, you'll blow up your motor, you'll shoot your eye out, and so on.

What happened to the days of grassroots tuning and upgrading? When you could buy an upgrade and not have to spend $1500 in supporting mods? I know IDEALLY dsmlink is the answer, as is a dyno, but what about those of us that don't have $200 an hour to spend on an AWD dyno and tune? ESPECIALLY for a DD.I have my stock t25 now, stock fuel system and a hotwired 190 pump.

All I want is for my ass dyno to be happy, I want my car to be as exciting as my h22 civic was. It already handles like a dream, and is quick but I want a little more, I want a little for not a lot, but it seems after the intercooler, and full intake and exhaust system, I can't do anyyhing else without buying an eprom and making my DD a race car. I spent $2000 over the last 7 years on my buick and got a 12 second V6 out of it, but I feel like $2000 on my DSM will get me a laptop and a socketed ecu with dsmlink and no money left to tune, yeilding no horsepower increase. Is there some recipies out there for those of us that don't have access to a dyno or deep pockets but want to have fun?

It just seems like the know it alls of the forum that already have dsmlink or dyno access, or money to burn, have taken the fun out of asking questions on basic upgrades, or big gains with little money. I paid $3k for my car, I don't want to spend $1500 in crap just to upgrade the turbo. I know the t28 is a good stock upgrade, but it also costs a ridiculous amount of money for less turbo than a small 16g. So where do we go from here? I don't want 300hp and 12's, I want 13's and no laptop to screw with, if my all motor civic did it, this 2 liter turbo bucket should do it easy.

 

[jrohner]

Because putting on a bigger turbo is NOT an upgrade unless you tune for it.

 

[Jarnutt]

Because putting on a bigger turbo is NOT an upgrade unless you tune for it.

That would be the reason I asked if I could run STOCK boost and leave room for improvement when I feel like dumping more money, instead ill just run a T25 so the elite circle of DSM tuners won't burn me at the stake for trying to not buy 2 turbos

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Instead of putting on the 16g and running low boost until you get the proper mods, why not get them first and then get the turbo.

 

[SFrymyah]

There is one very simple answer to your troubles OP, and keep in mind this is coming from a former honda guy/cheapass.

If you don't want to pay, stay out of the game.

Automotive anything is relatively expensive by nature, but looking back at when i had my integra, i've got to be honest. For what i spent making that car how i wanted it, i could have had a monster of a DSM instead. Tell me how you're going to get 300 to the ground in any honda engine without dropping over a grand. And be honest with yourself and include the swap.

Someone said it before - It takes a little bit to get these cars right, but once you get there, you unleash a pretty big wakeup all at once. As with anything anymore, if you pay cheap, 9 times outta 10, you're going to get cheap and you'll wind up even more in the hole than you were before down the road.

 

[jrohner]

The problem with a 16G on a 100% stock car, is that boost creep may be an issue. If you can keep the boost low enough it will be fine.

If you are in need of a turbo, just get a 14B from a 1G manual car. You should be able to find one for $100-150 used. It will work just fine when you're stock, yet will allow you to make a lot more hp than the little T25 hairdryer will once you get something to tune with.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

It's really not hard to go fast with cheap parts with a 4g63t. IF you know what you're doing that is.

 

[2gmummy]

I've heard this many times on these forums CHEAP,FAST,RELIABLE..pick two

But from the OP i think i understand where he's coming from. Everyone has there two cents and car guys are known to get a bit competitive and big headed, including myself at times, so asking a simple question can start out useful but quickly turn into a dick measuring im right your wrong cut everyone else down if they don't agree situation! haha and thats the truth! This site, I'm pretty, sure was made for people to learn the ways of DSM and to learn you MUST ask questions no matter how dumb you THINK they may be!...sigh... haha sorry i hope i didn't poke the bear too much

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Know how to get all three of those? Stick a stock engine from a large car into a smaller car. Voila.

 

[knochgoon24]

Once again, I'd like to suggest the 14b to the OP. From everything you've said, it's the way to go.

ECU will handle it until you up the boost.
Fuel system will handle it. 450cc injectors and a smaller MAS are used on the 1g.

The rebuilds are cheaper. They also seem to fail less catastrophically when they do go bad.

Then, when you decide to go bigger than the 14b, you already have every thing in place to get a 16g or 20g. You sell your 14b for almost exactly what you paid for it and buy the next turbo. That's the great thing about buying parts used.

You could also get away without tuning/logging beyond what that scantool will do. As long as you have a boost gauge, you should be fine.

 

[Jarnutt]

But from the OP i think i understand where he's coming from. Everyone has there two cents and car guys are known to get a bit competitive and big headed, including myself at times, so asking a simple question can start out useful but quickly turn into a dick measuring im right your wrong cut everyone else down if they don't agree situation! haha and thats the truth! This site, I'm pretty, sure was made for people to learn the ways of DSM and to learn you MUST ask questions no matter how dumb you THINK they may be!...sigh... haha sorry i hope i didn't poke the bear too much

Pretty much. HAHAHAHAHA!

I agree a 14b is my best bed, I wouldn't be backing myself into a corner with that turbo, and at stock boost I should be alright til I get some injectors and a tune. - just didn't want to cross that point of no return where my car is no longer a trustworthy DD and be in the same boat I have been with previous cars. Rule of thumb, the faster you go, the more parts you break, that's why I've tried pressing the fact that I don't WANT a drag ccar, I want to get what I can out of a regular commuter car, FOR NOW, and that's the reason I didn't want to buy another T25, I will upgrade to more power eventually, when I don't have my trans problems, new house and bad economy to worry about.

As for $3000 on a race car, I bought my civic for $2k out of the auto trader, got the motor out of a junkyard 98 prelude, harness, ecu and shift cables out of a 95 prelude, and the shafts and mounts off ebay, total price spent not counting car, $1600. So for $3600 I had a dpendable STOCK H22A4 converted to OBD1 that ran 13.8 on the quarter and got 26 mpg on the road, the downside, there's no room under the hood for an A/C compressor. First summer, I sold that hotbox for a mazdaspeed protege.

I'm starting to love my DSM, but I hate it when I pull up to a light or drive up to get gas, and there's another DSMr that feels the need to rev his engine at me, or take off from the light like life is one big drag race. Its like owning a honda all over again, I'm surrounded by douchbags I could never see myself getting along with if that's the frame of mind they are in. I need to go to the next DSM meeting on Thursday and meet some DSM owners that aren't assholes.

 

[rEclipserGST]

You want 13's? Get a 14b turbo, an MBC, a boost gauge, 1g BOV, a 190lp fuel pump, an SAFC, a logger, and a set of 550cc injectors. Install them. Do some pulls, log everything. Post the logs so we can help you tune. Go to the track, run a 13. There's your 13 second budget build.

That's weird... this setup is VERY close to what I had before selling and upgrading some parts.

Do not underestimate the 14b. Honda kids will laugh, but then again... they can only push 8 lbs right? On the other hand, our sexy cars can handle 20 lbs being forced out of this little demon. I will vouch and tell you this turbo WILL and DOES pull harder than your T25. You will be ecstatic even on stock boost levels. You will geek when you get a solid 14 lbs. Car pulls like a champ.

The MHI 14b is a mini version of the 16g. If your on a budget, do the damn thang.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I'm starting to love my DSM, but I hate it when I pull up to a light or drive up to get gas, and there's another DSMr that feels the need to rev his engine at me, or take off from the light like life is one big drag race. Its like owning a honda all over again, I'm surrounded by douchbags I could never see myself getting along with if that's the frame of mind they are in. I need to go to the next DSM meeting on Thursday and meet some DSM owners that aren't assholes.

You will learn to weed them out like the rest of us .

 

[Jarnutt]

Idont have a specific quarter mile time in mind, I don't even know what my car can do now, so I can't say that there is a real goal in mind. I get the mitsubishi turbos through work, if you look at my profile pics, there's a couple mitsubishi engines in the background, the blue ones that are twice the size of my car hahaha. So MHI stuff is all I use at work on the mitsu's, most of these turbos don't have wastegates though if its a deisel, but the compressors are the same, and on the gassers, they are similar to the car turbos. A joy in doing my line of work is the vendor costs I get on stuff. However, a T28 is STILL $600 through my garrett guy.

 

[jrohner]

I'm starting to love my DSM, but I hate it when I pull up to a light or drive up to get gas, and there's another DSMr that feels the need to rev his engine at me, or take off from the light like life is one big drag race. Its like owning a honda all over again, I'm surrounded by douchbags I could never see myself getting along with if that's the frame of mind they are in. I need to go to the next DSM meeting on Thursday and meet some DSM owners that aren't assholes.

EVERYONE tries to race me, whether they drive a Ford Taurus or a Dodge Caravan. It's pretty pathetic since the next fastest car around here (that I know of) that actually gets driven close to as much as mine has 80-90 less hp.

 

[Jarnutt]

You will learn to weed them out like the rest of us .

95blackGsTurbo, hopefully your not one of them at the QT on 75th and deer valley HAHAHAHA! I almost stopped getting gas there because of the douchebag kids in my neighborhood driving SRT4's and evos that think I want to race everyone. - don't think I've ever seen you around.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

95blackGsTurbo, hopefully your not one of them at the QT on 75th and deer valley HAHAHAHA! I almost stopped getting gas there because of the douchebag kids in my neighborhood driving SRT4's and evos that think I want to race everyone. - don't think I've ever seen you around.

And you probably won't . I don't go out much unless it's to help to work on a DSM or a small get together that is low key. I used to live in Suprise so I know some people out there as well that work at the Air Force base. I tend not to be seen to much with the typical crown because of their asinine behavior.

 

[Jarnutt]

And you probably won't . I don't go out much unless it's to help to work on a DSM or a small get together that is low key. I used to live in Suprise so I know some people out there as well that work at the Air Force base. I tend not to be seen to much with the typical crown because of their asinine behavior.

Yeah I don't do big get togethers, its like a buffet for theives to windowshop. Well if you ever know of anything going on let me know, I only know of the dsm club meetings off ray road on every second Thursday. I just got a house in peoria, so I'm not out in surprise anymore, I'm pretty handy to help out, especially electrical and audio video and security, I was an mecp certified installer for about 5 years at ultimate electronics until I started to hate fiberglass, if you ever need to tear something apart or blow something up, plus I have a 10 ton lift at my shop I can use. I need some under the hood time on DSM's other than mine and my friends at work.

 

[jeffo]

The EVO3 16G will hold any boost you set it for, IF you get the turbine/wastegate ported properly. My 1st GVR-4 creeped the whole way to 25psi before I sent the turbine to FP. After that it would hold at 10psi if I wanted it to. The EVO3 spools like a stocker, but will grow along with the rest of your upgrades. The only reason I would buy anything smaller is if I got one heck of a deal on it.