fp18g problem pic inside

[bastard dsm]

my issue was the fact that it didnt last a month, then that it blew because it hade rod bearing in it.
i was like what, i pulled the filter and it was clean...so were the cam caps. i was like ok..well what can you do for me....." well we can get you another one for 699." yea after i just paid 800.then the week after i bought it it when on group buy. i thought i was freinds with the people at fp, but i guess not. i had a 14b and small 16g last longer than that thing. o well, for the people that have had good luck with them great, i made good #'s on it on a stock motor and intake manny.

 

[toofast82]

I think everyone obviously agrees that this is a nice street turbo capable of 400whp+ with quick spoolup.
I'd like to hear more opinions/ideas as to why these turbine wheels are failing. Especially being an MHI turbo
I ran a tdo5h 18g with no issues for thousands of miles, and I bought it used. Like the typical MHI quality
Seems to be happening to only the tdo6sl2 turbines.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

This is from Ligo12 (BrianK), he wants to give his input on his experience with this turbo, but unable to post. He wants yall to know that Bling5tatus does not speak for him, and that his experience with the 6sl2 was great until the [ENGINE] bearing went.

Bastard, FP charged him 250, because the filter didn't catch all the debris. Like I stated, FP stands behind their products, if you do as they request to keep the turbo alive. They cannot warranty something that you don't protect.

If a shop cuts someone a break even if its the owners fault then that is i shop i will do long term business with

Also to clear up the OP's issue, it was caused by oil starvation to the thrust bearings as he was taking oil from the head, not the filter housing. Oil starvation then ensued and cause axial play (in and out) and the turbine ate itself against the heat sheild.

Do not take this thread as a "bad manufacturing" thread. It was totally at fault of the user of the turbo, for not taking proper precautions to preserve the turbo.

 

[Robert Young]

You are right Brian, it is not uncommon to see damaged turbos in engines with bearing problems. And our filter doesnt always filter out 100% of the trash, some of it can still get thru.

That pic of a ruined turbine wheel is a result of the thrust bearing dying and the turbine rubbing on the heat shield. Most turbos with failed thrust bearings have turbines that look like that. That isn't a picture of a defective turbine. The friction of the turbine head rubbing on the heat shield melts and grinds the turbine until it shatters in some cases, just depends how long you keep operating the unit after the bearing fails.

There isnt anything wrong with those turbines, they are fine. If the bearing doesnt fail then the turbine doesnt rub then the turbine doesn't look like that.

There are lots of reasons why thrust bearings in turbos fail, but it is often related to insufficient oil pressure and feeding the turbo from the cylinder head rather than the oil filter housing on the 4G63 motors.

BOOSTON!
Robert Young

 

[JusMX141]

There are lots of reasons why thrust bearings in turbos fail, but it is often related to insufficient oil pressure and feeding the turbo from the cylinder head rather than the oil filter housing on the 4G63 motors.

I've seen thrust bearings wear causing excessive in/out play on MHI turbos fed from the filter housing, too. It can't be oil pressure related or the journal bearings would die much earlier than the thrust bearing as the journal bearings are in constant contact with the shaft and housing.

I've had customers' turbos that died from lack of oil with zero wear on the thrust bearing and I've had customers' turbos that died from excessive thrust bearing wear that were getting plenty of oil and had journal bearings with zero wear or scoring. I've tried to put together a theory, but I honestly can't blame excessive thrust wear on lack of oil unless the oil hole is completely clogged with bearing material from a dying engine:

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Do the FP 18G and 20G turbos use a standard MHI thrust plate with one oiling hole and small thrust collar, or the upgraded thrust bearing with two oiling holes and the large thrust collar?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

I've seen thrust bearings wear causing excessive in/out play on MHI turbos fed from the filter housing, too. It can't be oil pressure related or the journal bearings would die much earlier than the thrust bearing as the journal bearings are in constant contact with the shaft and housing.

I've had customers' turbos that died from lack of oil with zero wear on the thrust bearing and I've had customers' turbos that died from excessive thrust bearing wear that were getting plenty of oil and had journal bearings with zero wear or scoring.

Do the FP 18G and 20G turbos use a standard MHI thrust plate with one oiling hole and small thrust collar, or the upgraded thrust bearing with two oiling holes and the large thrust collar?

Did you take said turbos apart to see if the bearings themselves were clogged? Because even though you take the oil from the OFH, if you get metal shards in your turbo, they will restrict oil flow negating your source.

*edt* I believe all 18g6sl2's use the 360* thrust bearing.

 

[JusMX141]

Did you take said turbos apart to see if the bearings themselves were clogged? Because even though you take the oil from the OFH, if you get metal shards in your turbo, they will restrict oil flow negating your source.

*edt* I believe all 18g6sl2's use the 360* thrust bearing.

Obviously the turbos were taken apart if they were at my shop to be rebuilt.

MHI turbos have no choice but to use a 360* thrust plate- my question to Mr. Young was if they use the standard MHI thrust plate with a small collar and only one oiling hole, or the upgraded thrust plates that are available these days which have two oiling holes and use a large collar (the size of a Quarter instead of a Dime).

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[bling5tatus]

I apologize for bringing Brian's name up, I don't want to cause him any trouble.

 

[toofast82]

If they were using the upgraded thrust bearing and larger collar, will this make the cartridge in need of more oil pressure. Will this make it ideal to oil from the OFH versus the head.
Justin, have you rebuilt mhi turbos that used the upgraded parts and the customers oiled from the head with no issues?
Using the standard thrust bearing, i've always oiled from the head with no issues. I tried to oil an old fp28g/o5h from the OFH, and it smoked. Put it on the head and never had an issue.

 

[JusMX141]

If they were using the upgraded thrust bearing and larger collar, will this make the cartridge in need of more oil pressure. Will this make it ideal to oil from the OFH versus the head.

I can't see how one additional TINY hole in the thrust plate would completely restructure the turbo's oiling requirements. The center housing will still distribute how much oil reaches the thrust plate the same as it always did, the upgraded thrust plate simply has two holes to allow more oil to reach the larger thrust collar for better support on turbos running high boost or turbos with large rotating assemblies.

Justin, have you rebuilt mhi turbos that used the upgraded parts and the customers oiled from the head with no issues?

I have....the Big 16G that was on my FWD for a few years used one of these thrust plates and was fed from the head using a 1G OEM feed line. The turbo never saw above 15psi but had zero shaft play in any direction when it was removed, and the thrust plate didn't even have a wear mark from the collar.

 

[toofast82]

I can't see how one additional TINY hole in the thrust plate would completely restructure the turbo's oiling requirements. The center housing will still distribute how much oil reaches the thrust plate the same as it always did, the upgraded thrust plate simply has two holes to allow more oil to reach the larger thrust collar for better support on turbos running high boost or turbos with large rotating assemblies.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I felt I would ask someone who rebuilds a lot of mhi turbos
Rob@FP explained why the turbines would turn out the way they do, but i'm still dumbfounded being an mhi turbine which is minimally larger than a tdo5h. And the fact that I don't hear of these issues with tdo5h/18g, but seems to be the tdo6sl2 turbine?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

It's NOT an MHI turbine

 

[bastard dsm]

I apologize for bringing Brian's name up, I don't want to cause him any trouble.

ha ha i was like what? how did brians name get pulled into this..

 

[bling5tatus]

I said that that's how I knew your 18g6sl2 blew up much sooner than it should have and then the wu tang killer bees started to swarm.

 

[bastard dsm]

I said that that's how I knew your 18g6sl2 blew up much sooner than it should have and then the wu tang killer bees started to swarm.

ha ha i heard man