FP18g or PTE3231 - help me decide

[joyfil2001]

I didn't get past page 4 of the subie thread, but I think that Robert dealt fairly with that situation.

It seemed to me that the OP there was trying to throw his weight around because he was an "elite moderator" , -seriously ...what kind of site leader on a tech forum doesn't even install his own turbos? Wouldn't want to ruin that prissy new manicure, now would we... for crying out loud, pull out the tampon already and start getting your hands dirty.

Not many turbo vendors are going to offer a refund instead of just replacing the turbo, especially when the customer makes smartass remarks and subtle threats about additional expenses like car rentals.

We all saw the pictures, that 20g turbine definitely looked like it failed from a foreign object impact. I'd trust Robert's opinion and his honesty before most anonymous forum users. How is that 20G FP's fault? And the other turbo, Robert offered to replace it without any argument.

I'd trust FP to be fair before most vendors out there and I'll continue to use their parts without a hint of worry.

While I do believe the outcome was fair, FP didn't offer to replace the turbo under warranty right away. Also, I have noticed alot of FP Green's going out due to lack of oil on Subies. I don't think that is a problem for DSM's

 

[dalatinromeo]

I didn't get past page 4 of the subie thread, but I think that Robert dealt fairly with that situation.

It seemed to me that the OP there was trying to throw his weight around because he was an "elite moderator" , -seriously ...what kind of site leader on a tech forum doesn't even install his own turbos? Wouldn't want to ruin that prissy new manicure, now would we... for crying out loud, pull out the tampon already and start getting your hands dirty.

Not many turbo vendors are going to offer a refund instead of just replacing the turbo, especially when the customer makes smartass remarks and subtle threats about additional expenses like car rentals.

We all saw the pictures, that 20g turbine definitely looked like it failed from a foreign object impact. I'd trust Robert's opinion and his honesty before most anonymous forum users. How is that 20G FP's fault? And the other turbo, Robert offered to replace it without any argument.

I'd trust FP to be fair before most vendors out there and I'll continue to use their parts without a hint of worry.

+1.... I felt the same way. You have to be crazy to think a vendor will refund you the labor of installing the parts. Thats ludacris!!!! But i def feel like he was def trying to use his title elite moderator

I felt it was dealt correctly. I used forced performance three times this year and have been more the satisfied with their customer service and their products. I will continue to use them for service.

To the OP I would go with any variant 50 trim. You should be find with any one PTE, FP, BW.

 

[JusMX141]

We all saw the pictures, that 20g turbine definitely looked like it failed from a foreign object impact. I'd trust Robert's opinion and his honesty before most anonymous forum users.

I see how it may appear that way to the average turbo user. I, however, have a more trained eye in spotting turbo damage due to my 5+ years of rebuilding experience.

If something would've entered the turbine housing and impacted the turbine wheel, the turbine inducer would be damaged, like this:

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In the case of the Subie turbo, you'll see that the turbine exducer sustained the majority of the damage, and the tips of all the other fins are hooked away from the direction of rotation, showing that the entire radius of the wheel's exducer made contact with the housing:

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The SHAFT PLAY occurred first, which THEN caused the turbine damage by allowing the turbine wheel to contact the housing. I'll bet ANY amount of money the turbine inducer tips were undamaged, which is proof that nothing went through this turbo.

I truly believe FP used this as a way to cop out of a warranty claim. Their theory is "try to prove a foreign object DIDN'T cause the damage", but with as many damaged turbos as I've held in my hands, I know the truth.

 

[joyfil2001]

Good catch! Haven't these guys ever heard that the customer is always right, especially if said customer runs a major website that can get you really good publicity?

Anyway, back on topic. I got an a really good deal from Extrempsi that I can't pass up on the FP18G. I will be ordering it today.

 

[delta448]

The SHAFT PLAY occurred first, which THEN caused the turbine damage by allowing the turbine wheel to contact the housing. I'll bet ANY amount of money the turbine inducer tips were undamaged, which is proof that nothing went through this turbo.

I truly believe FP used this as a way to cop out of a warranty claim. Their theory is "try to prove a foreign object DIDN'T cause the damage", but with as many damaged turbos as I've held in my hands, I know the truth.

Not to get too off-topic, and I really do respect your professional opinion here, but I don't think that you can say with absolute certainty there is proof. Isn't the air velocity the highest at the tip of the exducer as the air mass reaches the lower pressure volume exiting the turbine? Isn't it possible that a small enough piece accelerated through the inducer untouched and only made impact upon the exducer?

I suppose possibility and probabilty are two completely different animals. The burden of proof however is always going to be on the customer.

I'm certainly no expert, and I understand you're well versed with your rebuilding buisness and all, -I'm just hoping to gain some additional insight from you here. You'll notice that I intentionally put "looked like" in italics in my other post, to note that I am indeed an untrained eye and not 100% sure of what I've been shown.

 

[joyfil2001]

Not to get too off-topic, and I really do respect your professional opinion here, but I don't think that you can say with absolute certainty there is proof. Isn't the air velocity the highest at the tip of the exducer as the air mass reaches the lower pressure volume exiting the turbine? Isn't it possible that a small enough piece accelerated through the inducer untouched and only made impact upon the exducer?

I suppose possibility and probabilty are two completely different animals. The burden of proof however is always going to be on the customer.

I'm certainly no expert, and I understand you're well versed with your rebuilding buisness and all, -I'm just hoping to gain some additional insight from you here. You'll notice that I intentionally put "looked like" in italics in my other post, to note that I am indeed an untrained eye and not 100% sure of what I've been shown.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is physically possible for a foreign object to enter the inducer and pass directly through to the exducer. It would be blown into the intercooler would it not?

 

[delta448]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is physically possible for a foreign object to enter the inducer and pass directly through to the exducer. It would be blown into the intercooler would it not?

I was referring to the turbine's inducer/exducer not the compressor's. And with the size of foreign body it would take to make it through the turbine volute, it could easily be small enough to pass the fins inside an intercooler.

Both sides of a turbo have an inducer and an exducer. On the compressor, the inducer is the smaller edge which "grabs" the air and the larger exducer is the edge which centrifugally "throws" it into the compressor's cover. On the turbine, the inducer is the leading edge which the exhaust first hits against and then the airflow curves sharply down the blade surface onto the exducer edge and out of the hotside.

Let me re-iterate/rephrase one thing I said above. Probability-wise the bearings failed first, possibility-wise you can't rule out foreign body impact, at least not without more proof, which I'm counting on Justin to explain in further detail for us. And he has, ...in the next post.

 

[JusMX141]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is physically possible for a foreign object to enter the inducer and pass directly through to the exducer. It would be blown into the intercooler would it not?

Correct, unless it came from the engine itself.

I can see what Delta's onto, but the one detail he's forgetting is that if something WERE to feed into the turbine housing with the turbo spinning 150k, how could it escape and only damage ONE TURBINE FIN? Look at how ALL of the tips on the turbine I posted were damaged, compared to just one on the Subie turbo.

The shaft wedged sideways from too much shaftplay, and the tips of the turbine exducer fins hit the housing....the broken fin was the one which hit the hardest. I've seen it a hundred times- especially on turbo cores that I buy to rebuild. I have to diagnose what happened before I agree to buy the turbo so I can make sure it won't end up being a money pit.

 

[joyfil2001]

Ordered the 18g. Now I get to play the waiting game.

 

[dalatinromeo]

Good choice!!

 

[joyfil2001]

Thanks. I am planning on installing it myself so I will post back with results. FP is building it right now so I hope to get it soon.

 

[Whophlungpoo]

I have nothing but good things to say about my fp18g, at 22psi it got me to the 400whp mark and I am hoping to get more out of it on the bottle.

 

[joyfil2001]

I have nothing but good things to say about my fp18g, at 22psi it got me to the 400whp mark and I am hoping to get more out of it on the bottle.

That's the exact response I was looking for. Are all your mods in your profile? How hard was it to get to 400whp? Was it on race gas or pump?(please say pump)

 

[Whophlungpoo]

That's the exact response I was looking for. Are all your mods in your profile? How hard was it to get to 400whp? Was it on race gas or pump?(please say pump)

No, it was on e85, sorry to be disappointing. I only got to 300 on pump gas, before I started to knock at 14 psi. And yes those are all of my mods.

 

[joyfil2001]

That's still on track to making 400whp if you were only at 14psi.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Did you ever get the turbo? One of the guys that actually posted in this thread is selling their FP 18G now. I personally really like FP and have never had a problem with them. I called them from a sat phone in Iraq to order my FP3052 and have now had it on my car since 03 or 04 (not sure exactly when but it was one of the first ones that ever left their shop...it was still in the old housing if that tells you anything). I reached 400whp on pump gas with that turbo and the FP2 cams (also got them when they first came out) @ 21PSI. I didnt have a SMIM or any head work done at the time. I also had a stock fly wheel and I still had my balance shaft in the motor (which is one of the reasons my car is in the shop right now). I will get my car back within the next few weeks and will have it tuned after I break the TRE tranny in. I will have a SMIM, 75mm TB, no balance shaft, a FPR, a mild port and polish and a light fly wheel. Im hopeing for 450whp (my goal anyways).

 

[joyfil2001]

It just shipped yesterday. I should be putting it in the car this week.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

I hope its a smooth install for you. I also hope you hit your 400whp mark. What all is done to your car?

 

[joyfil2001]

All my mods are in my profile. As long as I hit 350whp or more I will be happy. I will be getting DSMLink and a proper tune before next summer.

 

[joyfil2001]

So my turbo comes in today and I will be starting the install tonight. Anybody have any tips/advice? I haven't done a turbo before but I am very mechanically inclined and it should be pretty simple. I am planning on leaving the exhaust manifold on and draining the fluids.

 

[JusMX141]

I recommend removing the exhaust manifold. It makes the job MUCH easier.

 

[joyfil2001]

Really? How so?

 

[DougR]

Just make shure every nut and bolt are loose and turn easily before removing the manni turbo package from the car. Those 4 bolts holding the turbo to manni can be a real pain. You would be wise to hose them all with PB blaster while they are still warm to help break the rust loose.
do this a few times, it really helped get mine off.

 

[JusMX141]

With the manifold out of the way, the turbo can come straight up and out. With the manifold in place, you'll have to remove the radiator and fans to get the turbo to clear the manifold. Depending on how big the turbo is, this is still damn near impossible.

 

[joyfil2001]

I got the turbo off the car. i kept the manifold on and dropped the turbo down. tomorrow i will be reinstalling everything