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1G FP Green or wait

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
Alright guys, let's get this out of the way, I've been a long time watcher and I have recently started trying to contribute to the forums a little bit. I am very mechanically inclined (Work at a salvage yard, multiple clutch jobs/engines swaps at home) So please no flaming, If you don't have anything helpful to contribute I will ignore you completely.

I have a 92 Eclipse GSX with light bolt ons. (190fp, rewire, hard intake piping, mbc set at 15psi, evoIII 16g ported and full exhaust.

I currently have a BNIB internally gated FP green in my living room. DSMlink is on the way and I own a set of evo8 injectors.

My question is this - Over the winter should I install the FP green while I'm doing a FMIC? ( I plan on purchasing a punishment racing FMIC during the holidays)

Or should I leave the evoIII on it and just run 20psi (with a tune) in the meantime and try to sell the FP green? I'm not looking for horsepower numbers or drag times, I do NOT care about either at this point, my concern is streetability and reliability, I know running an FP green at 20psi is low for what the turbo is capable of but I plan on doing a head gasket, ARP head studs, timing belt, cams, and the rest of the the necessary goodies NEXT year (Winter 2016) to be able to safely up the boost.

STM is half an hour from my house and I will be having Emery tune it either way.. just asking for some opinions, Again this is not about max horsepower as much as maintaining a fun street car.
 

secretagentstv

Proven Member
48
6
Oct 26, 2012
Rome, New_York
I would get rid of the green. Max out the 16g with a FMIC and some 650cc injectors. It's really the best turbo for the car in stock form in regards to throttle response, power and reliability. The green is a monster turbo your need an aggressive clutch and the lag would not be worth 20 psi. It's barely coming alive at 20 psi.
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
Forgot to mention! ACT streetlite flywheel, 2600 clutch and PP. the 14b already smoked my stock clutch last summer. (not that it changes anything you said, but I am trying to be as informative about my mods as possible)
 

secretagentstv

Proven Member
48
6
Oct 26, 2012
Rome, New_York
Well you could do the head work/timing belt and use that with the 16g. With the green you'd need at least 880cc injectors and probly a 255lph pump. Probably a fuel pressure regulator also. The 16 will be cheap reliable and fast.
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
99ECLIPSEGSXDSM, Please read the entire post, I am aware that the FP green won't be worth it if that was the max, but from my understanding OEM head gaskets can only realistically hold 20-23psi safely, If I am wrong then I am not opposed to running more boost. It is simply a matter of would I be safe running the FP green for a summer at low boost or is it such a large turbo that 20psi isn't even close to where it needs to be. Please bear with my ignorance to the situation as I am much more a V8 person, I split my money between my two winter vehicles and my two summer vehicles, and only have so much set to the side for each, that is why I will not do head gasket/cams and so on until my Timing belt is closer to being due.

It is basically a situation where I have the turbo in the box.. (I can't say no to a good deal) and this winter I will be right there so should I swap turbos or sell/trade for something a bit smaller. I would MUCH prefer a 68HTA over this FP green but I am only able to play the cards I am dealt. Right now I am leaning towards leaving my 16g in and possibly attempting to sell the FP green once I get enough posts to put it to classifieds.

Thank you to all who have replied and been respectful.
 

GSLENK

Proven Member
1,417
51
May 25, 2011
DC, Maryland
OEM head gaskets can only realistically hold 20-23psi safely, If I am wrong then I am not opposed to running more boost. It is simply a matter of would I be safe running the FP green for a summer at low boost or is it such a large turbo that 20psi isn't even close to where it needs to be.

1) On a 6 bolt especially that limit is far from true. Maybe on a warped head running a MLS HG it will blow, but on a good (not overheated/warped/ poorly prepped etc...) head thats nothing. For reference I run more timing (on E85) than the average pump gas person. I also run more boost, 35-38 psi, and more airflow, 60lb/min logged at peak boost/rpm on my FP red than you ever will on the green. I floor it at least once per day. Every day of the week. OEM head/head-bolts/engine/gasket, no head lifting no blown gasket. My tune, however, is pretty good and I don't knock.

I ran ~20-23psi on a 14b Spooled whenever I touch the pedal
I ran 28 psi on a 20g (pretty much like a FP green) Spooled fully by 4k (started around 3k)
I run 35-38 psi on the FP red. Full spool around 5k +/-, Starts around 4k.

2) FP green is hardly a large turbo. Who spends anytime doing any accelerating while RPMS are <3000?

End of story, your green is plenty small to be every bit as reliable as a 16g and still be very streetable and a lot more fun. You will notice the lag, but you will not mind because of the added power.


PS: there is not a lot in between a green (20g) and a 16g. There are the 68hta and the 71hta. I would keep the green.
 

JusMX141

Moderator
15,087
1,129
Dec 13, 2005
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
A Green at 20psi may not more more airflow than an Evo III at 20-22psi, but the air charge it will generate will be cooler- allowing more-aggressive tuning and leaner AFRs to be utilized.

If you're planning to bolt on the Green on a stock tune and expect a huge gain in power- that's not going to happen. A bigger turbo will always make cooler and more-usable airflow, but you need the ability to tune to put the airflow to use. If you have no tuning platform, all you're gaining is lag.

PS: there is not a lot in between a green (20g) and a 16g. There are the 68hta and the 71hta.
The 68HTA and 71HTA are the same turbo.
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
A Green at 20psi may not more more airflow than an Evo III at 20-22psi, but the air charge it will generate will be cooler- allowing more-aggressive tuning and leaner AFRs to be utilized.

If you're planning to bolt on the Green on a stock tune and expect a huge gain in power- that's not going to happen. A bigger turbo will always make cooler and more-usable airflow, but you need the ability to tune to put the airflow to use. If you have no tuning platform, all you're gaining is lag.


The 68HTA and 71HTA are the same turbo.

With all due respect JusMX, Since you and some of the mods of your expertise was the ones I was hoping to get a response from, I did mention in my original post that I am getting DSMlink and will be using that to tune with regardless of which turbo I decide to go with, that being said.

I am not looking for large gains, Simply asking if the next season (I live in new york, car goes away thanksgiving and comes back around april) If I will be punishing myself by putting the green on and running lower boost levels with this being only a street car, maybe one or two passes in the summer but this is not something I am going to race or push to the limit, I have a camaro to break.

1) On a 6 bolt especially that limit is far from true. Maybe on a warped head running a MLS HG it will blow, but on a good (not overheated/warped/ poorly prepped etc...) head thats nothing. For reference I run more timing (on E85) than the average pump gas person. I also run more boost, 35-38 psi, and more airflow, 60lb/min logged at peak boost/rpm on my FP red than you ever will on the green. I floor it at least once per day. Every day of the week. OEM head/head-bolts/engine/gasket, no head lifting no blown gasket. My tune, however, is pretty good and I don't knock.

I ran ~20-23psi on a 14b Spooled whenever I touch the pedal
I ran 28 psi on a 20g (pretty much like a FP green) Spooled fully by 4k (started around 3k)
I run 35-38 psi on the FP red. Full spool around 5k +/-, Starts around 4k.

2) FP green is hardly a large turbo. Who spends anytime doing any accelerating while RPMS are <3000?

End of story, your green is plenty small to be every bit as reliable as a 16g and still be very streetable and a lot more fun. You will notice the lag, but you will not mind because of the added power.


PS: there is not a lot in between a green (20g) and a 16g. There are the 68hta and the 71hta. I would keep the green.

That is good to know, I guess I'll have to do more research, I am much more familiar with LSX blocks and old school sbc v8s then I am with the 4G63 platform, One of the reasons I like it so much is the responsive spool characteristics, while I understand that the FP green is by no means a huge turbo for the engine, It is large for what my end power goals would be (300-350whp.. something fast enough to be fun on the street but where wheelspin won't become a serious issue on dry pavement), I guess I should of clarified that.
 

GSLENK

Proven Member
1,417
51
May 25, 2011
DC, Maryland
The 68HTA and 71HTA are the same turbo.

Noted. I have not kept up to date on FP turbos since being a happy FP red customer a year or so back. Although they (68 and 71) may have merged or replaced one another at some point I am pretty sure the 71 was an improvement on the 68 when both were offered. A google search pulled this up backing this notion, but this info is dated and Justin knows his stuff...
https://www.facebook.com/FPTurbos/posts/10151084116024473

And I forgot... I always assume that Link and a tune is an automatic/continually updated first mod. Without link... Sell the green.

In regards to wheel spin, I have to really try to get wheels spinning on dry hot pavement. And even then its just squirrely, not exactly a full on burnout from a roll. You get used to it after a while. This is for an AWD.

I had an 85 vette, L98, in oem form... that SBC didn't have shit on my setup or the 20g setup. And wheel spin is much worse in a 350ft/lb RWD than a lower than 300ft/lb ~ higher than 350hp AWD.
 

JusMX141

Moderator
15,087
1,129
Dec 13, 2005
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
With all due respect JusMX, Since you and some of the mods of your expertise was the ones I was hoping to get a response from, I did mention in my original post that I am getting DSMlink and will be using that to tune with regardless of which turbo I decide to go with, that being said.
That being said, I do know how to read.

You also mention the use of a 190 pump and Evo injectors. At 20psi with a Green, if you can even get THAT far, you're probably out of fuel and won't be able to fully-utilize the turbo anyway regardless of the tuning platform you're using. So if that's the fuel system you plan to run for a while, keep the Evo III 16G even after the FMIC is installed as the 16G is better-matched to the fuel system you currently have. Post #4 has already touched on this but was apparently overlooked/ignored.
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
You also mention the use of a 190 pump and Evo injectors. At 20psi with a Green, if you can even get THAT far, you're probably out of fuel and won't be able to fully-utilize the turbo anyway regardless of the tuning platform you're using. So if that's the fuel system you plan to run for a while, keep the Evo III 16G even after the FMIC is installed as the 16G is better-matched to the fuel system you currently have. Post #4 has already touched on this but was apparently overlooked/ignored.


560 is what I happen to currently own, not what I will be running later on down the line.. But thank you as I wasn't sure if I could sneak the green by with 560s on low boost, I will keep my eyes open for larger injectors since I can always tune down, I only have a 190 instead of a 255 because I wasn't ready for an afpr yet (again, so many cars, so much money to each)


I had an 85 vette, L98, in oem form... that SBC didn't have sh** on my setup or the 20g setup. And wheel spin is much worse in a 350ft/lb RWD than a lower than 300ft/lb ~ higher than 350hp AWD.

A smog era L98 (Tuned port injection) Is hardly anything to brag about, especially nowadays, much less compared to mildly modified dsms. Those engines were choked out hard by small intake runners, effective RPM range was only to 4500. I ran a fully built 350 .60 over, heads, cams, the whole deal.. my engine redlined at 7500, and survived like that for 6 years with me beating it almost every day... horsepower is irrelevant in the conversation but I have driven both, stock L98 vehicles and highly modified 350s, and lsx engines, I like v8s and I like knowing that even if I blow my camaro up I can get in my eclipse and still have something fun to drive to work every day. And wheel spin in a RWD is kind of the point when you build it, I sold my FWD laser to get AWD so I could stay away from wheelspin in my daily driver.
 

JusMX141

Moderator
15,087
1,129
Dec 13, 2005
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
Noted. I have not kept up to date on FP turbos since being a happy FP red customer a year or so back. Although they (68 and 71) may have merged or replaced one another at some point I am pretty sure the 71 was an improvement on the 68 when both were offered. A google search pulled this up backing this notion, but this info is dated and Justin knows his stuff...
https://www.facebook.com/FPTurbos/posts/10151084116024473
On this very site (read the posts which follow as well):

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/do-i-have-an-fp-68hta-td06sl2.475126/page-3#post-153392099

It seems FP decided to go against what they initially stated when the 68HTA was released- that being the TD05H turbine is sufficient enough for the compressor to perform at it's peak...and have now changed it to a larger turbine wheel in an 8cm2 housing and re-introducing it as a 71HTA to keep confusion to a minimum. Compressor is still the same.

Think of it as a billet TD05H 18G which is now a billet TD06SL2 18G. Kinda. ;)

If you want spool, find an old MHI-based 68HTA with a TD05H turbine and 7cm2 housing somewhere. If you want flow, the newest release should satisfy your hunger.

560 is what I happen to currently own, not what I will be running later on down the line..
Spoken like a true DSMer.... :p
I wasn't sure if I could sneak the green by with 560s on low boost, I will keep my eyes open for larger injectors since I can always tune down, I only have a 190 instead of a 255 because I wasn't ready for an afpr yet (again, so many cars, so much money to each)
Again....you can, but it won't be as "fun" as the 16G at a boost level where you wouldn't outflow the injectors- especially in the higher gears.

If the 16G blew an hour from now and you had no choice but to install the Green, you could do so and keep the boost down until you were able to get the injectors, pump, and pressure regulator you need. There's nothing wrong with that at all....I've built plenty of 20G's for guys (and gals) to run at 10-12psi until they can afford to upgrade their fuel system and tuning platform.
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
Perfect! That's exactly the type of answer I was looking for.. "you can but it might not be as fun" isn't great, but if push comes to shove and I get ambitious this winter I know what I can do, especially if I can offload some of my other parts to free up money for the nesseccary mods, especially since I just got dsmlink in the mail today.

Thank you very much for being patient with me, I didn't want to turn this into a "what do I need to run an FP green, since that HAS been beaten to death, I knew what was recommended for the higher boost levels, but I didn't find a single instance where someone was asking "could I get by for now with..." (which is why I ignored post #4)

Thanks again JusMX!
 

honda_burner

Proven Member
483
12
Jun 25, 2011
westfield, Massachusetts
The green is an incredibly fun turbo. I have it on a my 2g. It starts spool around 3k and hits 25psi a little after 4 and it's only flowing 40 lbs/min so there's more room to go.
I have a very basic set up. 255 pump rewired, 1000cc pte injectors, and link. jewer tuned ;)

(edit: misread the posts)
 

19gsx91

Proven Member
1,201
294
Apr 20, 2011
Walworth, New_York
Yeah I just came back inside from my last post after getting the ECU swapped and figuring a little bit out about link.. We'll see what ends up happening but for the moment I'm excited just to have some insight into what my car is doing.. I'm used to tuning and rebuilding carburetors and that's basically... a little more hands on.
 

94laserawd

Proven Member
37
4
Jan 18, 2011
Gainesville, Florida
The green is a fun turbo, and very capable of big power. But it looks like you are in need of a lot of supporting mods fist!
 
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