Ford/Chrysler 1600/160lb injectors

[ziggo0]

My motor will be coming together in the next few months, i'll be running these with e85, they are 1680's though.

 

[cookmeup272]

I would like to see some more results/info on these as well.

 

[RedGST98]

anyone have a log or deadtimes or what not that ended up running the bosch 1600cc on pump gas by chance?

 

[boost97gst]

Im dragging this one up from the dead. I just got a set from the classifieds and will be installing within the next 2 weeks. Running good quality e85 for the first time. I will post up my findings and more if anyone is interested. if not, ill let this thread go back to sleep .

 

[arrowhead]

Yes, please do.

 

[teknicalissue]

Any luck on your findings? I just bought a set and don't know what to really expect from them

 

[boost97gst]

I was unhappy to say the least. I even had them flow tested and cleaned. They were barely dirty. Came back perfect. Re installed them and found i had to use a much lower global than i should have, had a nightmare dialing in DT and never got cruise to work right. It would just jump too much during light throttle. WOT was fine but i didnt spend enough time with them. I just got sick of dealing with the lurching and unpredictability and went back to my pte1000s. Stayed e85 but was limited to a max of 52lbs/min.

Soon after i found out i had major problems. Ring had cracked in cyl 2 leading to 90psi of compression.
So much for the Mahle's. I WILL test them again when im 100% sure im firing on all 4 and not 3.5 cylinders but i seriously doubt i can get rid of the cruise problem

See, these particular injectors are 5ohms. Thats a bit higher than any other low-z injector out there. In fact its the only known one to have that resistance. I think that is part of the problem. I had thought of soldering in 2W 12ohm resistors in line with each injector and deleting the resistor box(which was tested and fine).

If your looking for a track injector i think theyd be great, def not meant for the street, atleast without some changes.

My conclusion: Pretty much another 225 plus 75 for testing and cleaning down the drain. When i list these on the classifieds you bet your ass i will have the flow sheet along with a warning about their behavior. I dont believe in selling something you know has inherent problems. Some people might like them, others not so much.

If i do fiddle with them after the rebuild ill post up any solutions i find, if any.


Edit: Obviously i wouldnt consider running gas through them. e85 mandatory

 

[teknicalissue]

Just curious.. why wouldn't you recommend these with gas?

 

[boost97gst]

If they were that hard to tune on e85 then how f'd do you think they would be on pump? Hell, you can try it but just think about it, on light cruise/light throttle youll be asking for even less pulsewidth and better flow control. Around 33% better to be exact and i dont think the results will be good.

Now i thought of something this morning: There may be a difference between the green and white tops. If thats true then i can only speak for the green top 1600s

 

[teknicalissue]

That makes much more sense. When I get my 1600's (white/grey tops FIC re-sold) I'll post on this thread as well. I'll be planning to run pump gas with my set.

I'll keep you guys posted

 

[boost97gst]

Please do. In the meantime do me a favor: ring the injectors and let me know what the resistance is. Almost ALL low z are around 2ohms. IIRC, the resistor box is roughly 6 ohms. Grand total of ~8 ohms.
When using the ones i have, my ecu drivers are seeing a load of ~11-12ohms. This has got to be the main problem with bosch 1600s, or at least the green top variety.

Yea bro, let us know how it works. Gas may be the answer for light throttle cruise. You might be right on the "knee" of the injector curve and itll pulse fine and your FTs wont jump +/- 25% .

 

[teknicalissue]

Please do. In the meantime do me a favor: ring the injectors and let me know what the resistance is. Almost ALL low z are around 2ohms. IIRC, the resistor box is roughly 6 ohms. Grand total of ~8 ohms.
When using the ones i have, my ecu drivers are seeing a load of ~11-12ohms. This has got to be the main problem with bosch 1600s, or at least the green top variety.

Yea bro, let us know how it works. Gas may be the answer for light throttle cruise. You might be right on the "knee" of the injector curve and itll pulse fine and your FTs wont jump +/- 25% .

Yea, As soon as I get them, I'll post the resistance We definitely need more information on these injectors

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there are FIC 1600's that are indeed 2 ohms... FOund this in the dsmlink forums

Great post donnie. Can you post a graph of what it should look like.

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Boost97GST - this is mostlikely the hiccup you feel

(the dash is what they are supposed to look like) essentially with a lower pulse width they actually flow more than they should be which is what causes issues at idle and cruise

 

[teknicalissue]

I measured the Ohm's on my injectors and they are indeed 2.2ish 2.1. I put these babies on tonight on the car set global to -72 and Dead time to 450 and although the car idles slightly rough (set for 750RPM, engine idles 740- 760 the changes between idles are not drastic) it definitely is something I personally wouldn't deem annoying. idle is at 14.7 - 15 and fuel trim are +/- 2 all around.

Idle and cruising: I haven't felt the so called hiccup while cruising, I can verify idle is a tad rough but it's honestly (on my vehicle) something negligible as far as annoyance is concerned. I also contact FIC and verified that these injectors have been serviced by them

Running Pump gas 93 at the moment and not E85.

I would not hesitate to buy another pair of injector like these again? I'd rather sacrifice a smooth as butter idle than shell an extra 200 bucks for 50cc more (1650 FIC Blue Max)

My 2 Cents. I'll post a log once I'm done fine tuning the car

 

[boost97gst]

Dude that is AWESOME. So you say they are grey/white top 1600s? Maybe the green tops(what i have) are the odd balls. I sent mine to be flow tested and cleaned, was just looking at the paper in fact. The guy is a member on here who owns a shop and even he said hes never seen resistance of 5 to 5.5ohms like my boschs have. Damn it! This needs to be stickied almost or atleast if anyone buys a set have the seller ring them first and give you the resistance BEFORE buying them. I cant say for certain that ALL greens are bad, but mine were. There are quite a few bosch 1600 varieties out there.

Damn, im happy for ya......and jealous as ####!! haha jk

Please post the Part number of the injectors. Should be somewhere on it, too lazy to go down to the dungeon and get my boschs. I think its around the top though. You may very well have proven what no one else has AND have a pn to back it up with. You could help a lot of people.

I repeat to all who buy these on the classifieds or anywhere else: Have them ring the injectors. ALL of them to make sure they are around 2 ohms. Otherwise you will not be happy with cruise especially



EDIT: pn for green tops(kind of a light teal,probably just faded) I have. All 4.9-5.2ohms(not good for cruise ) F5TE-B5A on one side. 0280150839 on the other. I think the first set of numbers and characters is how they are identified.

The actual flow was 1620cc/min at 43.5psi according to Allen at Evolution Injection. hes a great guy btw, great price. Not as much data as FIC gives though. No globals or individual DTs provided. You get what you pay for i suppose.

Copied from page one. As you can see there ARE white tops with the same pn kind of...

Here are the 160 lb injectors that I am aware of:

Ford Motorcraft/Bosch: 0280150846 F5TE-B5A White Top

Bosch: 0280150839 Aqua Top< what I have

Bosch: 0280150837 Brown Top

 

[honda_burner]

Here are the 160 lb injectors that I am aware of:

Ford Motorcraft/Bosch: 0280150846 F5TE-B5A White Top

For whatever its worth, I'm a Ford parts guy, and the ACTUAL part number for those injectors is:

F5TZ-9F593-B5A,
and supersedes (or updates) to a:

XL3Z-9F593-CA

They are out of a 97 crown vic (natural gas vehicle).

 

[boost97gst]

You can confirm the resistance is ~2 ohms? I pmd the guy and he is going to update thread soon. I know i seem obsessed with this topic but i hate to see people keep falling for 5 ohm injectors that dont play well with our ecus. The 2ohm versions would work perfect but looking for solid info was tough.
Thanks for the post Honda_burner.

 

[Hal]

I'll post a log once I'm done fine tuning the car

With flow rates like this, good luck.

 

[boost97gst]

That chart shows all the different varieties of these injectors? The 2ohm, and 5ohm? Or is that the chart showing flow of the more common 5ohm injectors?
If theyre all that bad then theres no sense in these what so ever

 

[teknicalissue]

With flow rates like this, good luck.

That chart are for the 2ohm injectors (not 5). Hal on the link forums, there is a thread where these injector where in fact dialed in correctly (some end up increasing dead time to the 600's), they may not be plug and play like the rest but they have their sweet spot. For me, My idle is slightly rough but WOT and Cruise are working as they should (I'll post a log when I can, I've been away for work travel).

Also, these injector where serviced by FIC ( I emailed them and verified) and I'm running at 37psi base fuel pressure (1g) Pictures of the injectors:

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Maybe I stumbled upon a set of 1600's that are different? The model is: xl3e-c9a is you can't see them in the picture.

That chart shows all the different varieties of these injectors? The 2ohm, and 5ohm? Or is that the chart showing flow of the more common 5ohm injectors?
If theyre all that bad then theres no sense in these what so ever

It's for the 2ohm, you're 5ohm injectors are totally different I would assume.

Actually I don't know if you can compare the 2 ohm grey top with the 5ohm green top

For whatever its worth, I'm a Ford parts guy, and the ACTUAL part number for those injectors is:

F5TZ-9F593-B5A,
and supersedes (or updates) to a:

XL3Z-9F593-CA

They are out of a 97 crown vic (natural gas vehicle).

are the xl3e-c9a ford as well? I know they all are categorized in to one.. based on what everyone else is saying, it appears that my set are dialed in fine

In addition to this.. there are other people who have managed to tune them in just fine (like me) on link forums:

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[Hal]

In addition to this.. there are other people who have managed to tune them in just fine (like me) on link forums:

Yeah, comments like "except at idle, idle is a little rough".

Just fine

Stop misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

Some people will accept quirks in order to obtain a certain goal or save a few bucks,

The issues with this type of 1600cc injector are well documented.

Large injectors with excellent characteristics have been available for a long time.

There's no reason to even consider using these except to save money.

What most people find is that they eventually get tired of the quirks and get a different injector.

Hal

 

[teknicalissue]

Yeah, comments like "except at idle, idle is a little rough".

Just fine

Stop misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

Some people will accept quirks in order to obtain a certain goal or save a few bucks,

The issues with this type of 1600cc injector are well documented.

Large injectors with excellent characteristics have been available for a long time.

There's no reason to even consider using these except to save money.

What most people find is that they eventually get tired of the quirks and get a different injector.

Hal

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm in no way shape or form bashing/flaming you (things tend to get misrepresented on these online forums )

I'd like to clear up that I'm not saying these injectors will run like blue max 1650's and will not have quirks and issues. My car is not a DD and I it comes out probably 5 to 8 times a year.

Also, I'd like to add that it's not that I'm/We're misrepresenting or pretending nothing is wrong. Myself and others clearly acknowledge that the idle is rough. Some don't mind a rough idle (my case for example) and some who most likely DD their dsm, want a smooth as butter idle and that's just fine

I'm just posting my experience on these injectors in hopes that someone finds this thread and doesn't buy bluemax's when they can grab a pair of FIC Bosch's for less than 200 bucks while sacrificing their idle.

Just my 2 cents

 

[honda_burner]

are the xl3e-c9a ford as well?

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Yes those are ford injectors. XL3Z-9F593-CA is the part number

 

[boost97gst]

Thank you tecknicalissue, for posting up. I know how being away on business is. A lot of drinking and cheating on the wife. JK hahaha
Well, we have a situaaaation here. The flow charts are indeed for the 2ohm flavor boschs. Which still makes me skeptical of their idle AND cruise behavior. I gotta say, i really just wanted this thread to expand to warn people on the classifieds of what exactly they are getting and its not a "free lunch" like it seems. I have no dog in this fight, those green dogs got cleaned and are now sitting in a nice tupperware container in my basement. Im still gonna splurge on 2150s. Without concrete evidence that multiple 2ohm boschs can perform well cruising and at least adequate at idle, i could never spend another dime on them.
Shame there isnt a company that can modify these. Anyone know a scene that buys these up besides ours? When i list them it will have a link to this thread for full disclosure.

Sorry,ambien kicking in . But thanks to those who have contributed even more.

Lesson: If you do get these, PLease dont get the 5ohm variety, get the 2ohm. If you HAVE to have them.

 

[bigdnno98]

Guess I should have done some research. I ended up with the 5 ohm injectors. And got them cleaned and flow tested before I realized what they were. I'm gonna still try to tune them this weekend.