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Firing Order [Merged 5-7]

STARION

Proven Member
193
0
May 30, 2002
Nova, D.C.
forgot firing order. 1990 4G63T.
call the cylander farthest on the passenger side #1. and call the ignition tower farthest from the firewall #1.

thanks
 

snakeyes711

Proven Member
647
0
Feb 5, 2009
W-S, North_Carolina
all you got to do is, looking straight at the coil put the first wire in the second slot, and on the first cylinder near the cam. Then go to the third slot, and second cyl, and so on. Thats where he gets the 4123....I hope that didn't just confugle you even more.
 

snakeyes711

Proven Member
647
0
Feb 5, 2009
W-S, North_Carolina
roger, hope everything goes fine. I understood freeman but I kinda thought you may not have been clear on it.
 

ENICKB

Proven Member
243
0
Dec 25, 2011
Morgantown, West_Virginia
This does accurately answer the question of the wiring order; but for the sake of correctness/completeness; the firing order is 1-3-4-2, as it is for all inline 4 cylinder engines.

;)

It goes 4 1 2 3, it even says it on the coil pack.

1 being closest to the timing belt and 4 the farthest.



:hmm: So I understand that all DSMs coilpack firing orders are 4123, without a doubt. Its even stamped on it. And if you have a 2g and you used DSMLink to invert your Cam Angle Sensor, then you use 3214. (Inverse of stock)... My question is, if you read this thread, more than once, people descare the firing order to be 1342. Can somebody please explain if this is misinformation, or if I have missed something here. :ohdamn:
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
13,871
938
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
My question is, if you read this thread, more than once, people descare the firing order to be 1342. Can somebody please explain if this is misinformation, or if I have missed something here. :ohdamn:

The general confusion is we are talking about 2 different things. Firing Order and the order of the spark plug wires on the coils. It doesn't help that people usually ask about one when they really mean the other.

The Firing Order is cast or forged in steel and it's 1 - 3 - 4 - 2. That's the order which the cylinders fire as set down by the crank and cams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firing_order

Most of the discussion in this thread is how to connect the spark plug and injector wiring so that they fire in the correct 1 - 3 - 4 - 2 order when you mix and match parts across model years.
 
Last edited:

bmxmk18

Proven Member
35
0
Jan 6, 2011
Liberty, New_York
These cars run waste spark so you can have 4 and 1 in any orientation on the first coil, and 2 and 3 in any orientation on the second.
 

99bluegst

Proven Member
200
1
Mar 10, 2010
houston, Texas
I'm bringing this to life i have 2 question<

1:- do i need to swap wire pins form the ecu ?
2:-do i need to swap wires to?

i have 95 gst i just did 6bolt swap 2g head I'm using 1g cas, now the car won't start i do have spark and fuel
I'm running dsmlink v3 and i know is working cause i just pull it from my other dsm. thanks in advance
 

Nugget

Probationary Member
4
2
Sep 28, 2019
Denver, Colorado
Reawakening this old thread in direct reference to Steve’s explanation. Anyone is welcome to respond with assistance. (if you have questions unrelated to mine, please read the ENTIRE thread first as it will most likely be answered.)

My question: My car is a 7-bolt 1993 Eagle Talon Tsi Awd 5spd I purchased last year with 66k miles and 100% stock including the original crappy CD player. It has only been driven 4K miles in 16 years, so I am going through it mechanically first before I address a few small exterior and interior issues.
As I am currently replacing the plug wires, the wires on one coil are set up backwards, and as follows:
4
3
2
1
4-1 3-2 -> separation to show the individual coil packs. (THIS ORDER IS WRONG TO ANYONE READING THIS AND PART OF MY QUESTION, CORRECT SEQUENCE IS BELOW)
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Leading into Steve’s explanation, but I’m a little confused why the car would still run completely the same? Is it because it is on the same coil pack, so that when that 2nd coil pack (closest to firewall) is activated, BOTH plugs fire at the same time, so reversing them has No Affect? You mentioned reverse polarity, but does that affect spark at all in any negative manner? Would this mistake cause any inefficiencies or negative side effects at all even though the car would appear to run fine? I’m trying to narrow down a few other symptoms, so want to Have an exact understanding of how the ECU is firing everything.


—-
My understanding based on experience and manuals (factory service manual and Haynes)
1st - I understand the order of the cylinders and ignition coils are as follows.
4
3
2
1
4 1 2 3

2nd - I understand the difference of the firing order, 1-3-4-2, as I did the TDC(top dead center) when I bore-a-scoped my cylinders To check the cyl walls and top of the pistons.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
13,871
938
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
Maybe thinking of it this way will help. You have two coils, they each fire twice per cycle. Both plugs spark when the coil fires but only one starts a fire, the other spark is wasted. So, It doesn't really matter much which plug wire is on which of the two connectors of a coil only that they are on the right (correct) coil.

The technical difference is the direction that the spark jumps at the plug. One spark jumps from the plugs center electrode to the outer (ground) strap and the other plug has the spark start from the outer conductor to the center.

So all of these plug to coil wirings should be the same in function:
4 1 2 3
4 1 3 2
1 4 2 3
1 4 3 2

Sometimes the lengths of the sparkplug wires dictate using something other than the factory pattern.
The key points are 1 - are the right plugs on the right coil, 2 - are the wires routed to avoid crosstalk/missfire.
 

Scorepion85

Probationary Member
2
0
Jun 18, 2021
Angels Camp, California
Please make it stop.

The sequence of the wires on the coil pack is not the "firing order".

The firing order is just that, the order in which the cylinders fire. On both generation it's 1 - 3 - 4 - 2.
Cylinder 1 is the one next to the timing belt.

The order of the plug wires on the coil packs is normally 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 left to right when you are looking into the coil towers. (from the drivers side wheel well on a 1G or over the radiator on a 2G 4G63)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


If you have 2G DSMlink on anything other than a 95/96 car you need to move the wires to 3 - 2 - 4 - 1. swapplugwires [ECMTuning - wiki]

Keep in mind that because we run a wasted spark, the plugs on a coil both fire at the same time so swapping 4 and 1 or 2 and 3 will have no functional difference.
So if the numbers on the coil pack for not the firing order on the first gen DSM how do you do the firing order on it and I'm extremely confused
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,894
1,930
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
So if the numbers on the coil pack for not the firing order on the first gen DSM how do you do the firing order on it and I'm extremely confused
I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread. The "firing order" is the sequence in which the cylinders fire. Most people use the term to describe where the wires go which is most of the topic in this thread. If you're wondering g where the wires go its 4123 on the coil pack with cyl 1 being closest to timing belt. Read the entire thread and I don't think you will be confused on the true definition of firing order.
 

Scorepion85

Probationary Member
2
0
Jun 18, 2021
Angels Camp, California
What I mean by if the firing order is not what it says on there is what I'm confused about because I have a 1992 Plymouth Laser RS all wheel drive Turbo 5 speed manual the firing order on the coil packs is 4123 like it's supposed to like it says on there but I was reading another spread that that the number one wire goes into number one but the number 4 wire goes in the number two on the coil pack and the number 3 wire goes into the number four on the coil packs and the number 2 goes into the number 3 or something like that I'm just trying to figure out exactly where the wires go on the coil pack from 1 to 4 if it goes exactly how it says on the coil pack or if it goes in a different coil order that it it says on the coil pack because I've been having trouble getting this car to start it sat for 10 years and I've replaced about $500 worth of Parts on this car so far and I am generally confused about what's going on some people are saying it's the ECU summer saying is MPI I replace the empty I replace the fuel pump I have paint coded I replace the spark plugs ever replace the spark plug wires and replace coil pack the fuel filter and I still cannot get this car to start
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
13,871
938
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
I'll try to be simpler, I have a tendency to over explain things. After this I suggest you start a new thread on your issue of not starting, because it far off topic here.

The 4G63 as designed fires the cylinders in this order 1 - 3 - 4 - 2. It's always in that pattern and repeats. When cylinder 1 is at TDC of it's compression stroke cylinder 4 is at TDC of it's exhaust stroke. If you think it through, cylinders 2 and 3 are somewhere 180* off in their Otto cycle.

The ECU has two drivers for the coils, A and B, each coil has two outputs which run to the spark plugs. When the ECU charges and fires a coil both spark plugs connected to it generate a spark but only one has a cylinder with compressed fuel and air ready to go, the other just pushed the exhaust out so there is nothing for it's spark to burn. This is called a wasted spark ignition.

Which wire is connected to which tower on a coil doesn't matter too much since both wind up sparking at the same time but which cylinder pair they go to is critical. You don't want the ECU firing the plug for cylinder 1 when cylinder 3 is the one with fuel to ignite. so, you can swap the connections at the coil for the plugs in 1 and 4 or the ones for 2 and 3 but not and other combination.

The order the wires go on the coils as the factory mounted and wired them is 4 - 1 - 2 - 3. Coil A gets cylinders 4 and 1 and coil B gets 2 and 3. Just remember that the ECU then fires coil A then B then A again and B again to make the cylinders 1, 3, 4, 2 ignite when each is at it's TDC compression stroke.
 
Last edited:

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,894
1,930
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
What I mean by if the firing order is not what it says on there is what I'm confused about because I have a 1992 Plymouth Laser RS all wheel drive Turbo 5 speed manual the firing order on the coil packs is 4123 like it's supposed to like it says on there but I was reading another spread that that the number one wire goes into number one but the number 4 wire goes in the number two on the coil pack and the number 3 wire goes into the number four on the coil packs and the number 2 goes into the number 3 or something like that I'm just trying to figure out exactly where the wires go on the coil pack from 1 to 4 if it goes exactly how it says on the coil pack or if it goes in a different coil order that it it says on the coil pack because I've been having trouble getting this car to start it sat for 10 years and I've replaced about $500 worth of Parts on this car so far and I am generally confused about what's going on some people are saying it's the ECU summer saying is MPI I replace the empty I replace the fuel pump I have paint coded I replace the spark plugs ever replace the spark plug wires and replace coil pack the fuel filter and I still cannot get this car to start
Please start a new thread. The order of the wires is as the coils state. We can help you with a no start and there are some good no start threads already. I would stop replacing parts and take a more diagnostic approach. Start a new thread and give us some information about the car and what you've done etc.
 
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