finally i get to up grade my GST

[GST_RIC_99]

so i'm finally getting down to starting the steps to mod my car in two weeks ill have a evo III 16G with a install kit that a friend of mine is selling for a awesome price $350 its used and looks like it's still in good condition he found a guy that was parting out his gst i think he said it was a 97 or 98? he told me ill sell it to you for a good price so i check it out yesterday and it was legit i was reading on the forums all last nite for info on 16g's and i found some pretty useful info on the Serial numbers because i was worried that it was a nock off so the turbo match to a EVO III i gave the info to my friend and he said that the numbers was the same so I'm pretty happy with that.I always wanted a EVO III 16G and it was my lucky day I guess so now before I start I know i need more stuff to complete the set up I wrote down a list so far what i needed what i read on here that i think i need


injectors 560cc
255lph Fuel Pump
cat back exhaust 3''
fimic not sure if my side mount will cut it for this bigger turbo
upgrade bov from stock bov going have it ''recirculate'' still because i read venting to atmosphere is bad
short ram intake & manual boost controller

what else would i need to bolt on the kit without having any problems? also would this be enough to run the 16g ? and what would the safe zone for the psi be to not push the car too hard I'm not chasing a big number i just want a 300-320hp mark and ill be happy

 

[clipto]

You got a boost gauge right? Every car is a little different.When I had my t25 it would very eatch upgrade I did.So after taking out the bsc restrictor it would do 15 psi before not sure but all stock boost is in the 12-15psi range depending on the car.

 

[eligst21]

anybody ?




is this what you were talking about ?VRSF 2G FMIC Front Mount Intercooler Kit : 95-99 Eclipse & Talon Turbo 2G DSM

also what do you mean by boost creep ?

Yes that is the fmic i am talking about.

And boost creep is an issue with the 16g's and various other turbos. It is basically, the turbo spooling up too fast and creeping with boost and then has no way to exit the hotside of the turbo. So for example, the wg port is smaller then the flapper and thus wont release the exhaust out as needed to keep that steady boost, instead it will build up and just keep building boost. Im sure you can see why this is bad. There are numerous forums on this issue. And only true way is porting the turbo and a good exhaust.

 

[GST_RIC_99]

You got a boost gauge right? Every car is a little different.When I had my t25 it would very eatch upgrade I did.So after taking out the bsc restrictor it would do 15 psi before not sure but all stock boost is in the 12-15psi range depending on the car.

Yeah i have the stock boost gauge in side my car but dosen't tell you how much I am boosting so i have to buy one that can tell me how much I'm boosting

Yes that is the fmic i am talking about.

And boost creep is an issue with the 16g's and various other turbos. It is basically, the turbo spooling up too fast and creeping with boost and then has no way to exit the hotside of the turbo. So for example, the wg port is smaller then the flapper and thus wont release the exhaust out as needed to keep that steady boost, instead it will build up and just keep building boost. Im sure you can see why this is bad. There are numerous forums on this issue. And only true way is porting the turbo and a good exhaust.

Oh ok i get it now thanks for explaining that for me I guess I better look into porting the turbo too I have a friend that dose porting but not sure if he ever done a turbo port ?

 

[eligst21]

Porting isnt too bad. There are tons and tons of threads on it as well as videos. Check out some videos on youtube by jafromobile. He shows how to port. Just make sure to get no shavings in the turbo.

 

[GST_RIC_99]

Porting isnt too bad. There are tons and tons of threads on it as well as videos. Check out some videos on youtube by jafromobile. He shows how to port. Just make sure to get no shavings in the turbo.

thanks you been a big help and so has everyone else thanks guys ill keep everyone updated when i get the turbo in two weeks and take pictures of the turbo too.i hope the upgrade turns out good as i plan

 

[91stocker]

Wow, what exactly is your budget, because some of these people are suggesting you purchase $2-3k worth of parts here. I know personally i dont have 3k to dump on parts all at once.

You need to figure out a series of progression. A set of steps you can take that will ease the strain on your wallet.

A fmic is not absolutely necessary at the moment. The factory smic will heat soak when you start pushing the 16g, but you dont have the fuel system for that. The ONLY reason i would install a fmic at this stage would be to make the 16g install easier.

"Porting the turbo' is way to general and is really bad advice to say something like that so vaguely. When it comes to boost creep, you dont "port the turbo". You port the wastegate hole in the exhaust housing. "Porting the turbo" will do absolutely nothing for boost creep. There are write ups on enlarging the hole behind the wastegate flapper. It takes two minutes to remove the exhaust housing, so no reason to leave it on when porting and even worry about the risk of metal shavings.


Honestly, my first purchase would be link. My close friend ran 14.1 with intake/exhaust/mbc on his 2g gst and the stock t25. With link and a good tune it would have been a 13's car easy.

Link v3 will cost you about $1k when its all said and done. So its a fairly large investment. But it is worth it. Its a base on which you can build off of, and an absolute prerequisite to any fuel system mods.

 

[eligst21]

Yeah no problem. You know how to thank me more, add me some rep points. Haha. Jk. Youre welcome man, hope it goes well.

 

[clipto]

Just a thought most people come in here asking for 300hp, I see alot of threads like that latley. As I myself have spent just around $2000-$3000 myself for 300whp. So as I throw out all the info on stuff I have and they know what to get, this is what they should exspect.

 

[eligst21]

I myself spent around that to get to where im at right now. So i am just giving advice from experience. Also, he wants to make power, and if he is able to now, why not get the parts he needs so he is ready when he wants it. Not to mention, you just suggested him a part that cost 1k. That is a big investment when isnt really necesaary. I mean, it nis a great investment and would be the best bet, but he is a 99 and has a flashable ecu. People have made good power from the ecu flashes.
Also, if you noticed my post, i was saying that it was due to the wg flapper being small and needed some porting. Also, people port the exhaust entry port that bolts to the mani for ease of flow of the exhaust gases. Not to mention, they smooth out the hotside where the exhaust exits. Just to say porting the wg port is a little vague as well. Just my opinion.

 

[91stocker]

I myself spent around that to get to where im at right now. So i am just giving advice from experience. Also, he wants to make power, and if he is able to now, why not get the parts he needs so he is ready when he wants it. Not to mention, you just suggested him a part that cost 1k. That is a big investment when isnt really necesaary. I mean, it nis a great investment and would be the best bet, but he is a 99 and has a flashable ecu. People have made good power from the ecu flashes.
Also, if you noticed my post, i was saying that it was due to the wg flapper being small and needed some porting. Also, people port the exhaust entry port that bolts to the mani for ease of flow of the exhaust gases. Not to mention, they smooth out the hotside where the exhaust exits. Just to say porting the wg port is a little vague as well. Just my opinion.

The guy is just now starting to mod his car. And you guys are recommending a 16g w/install kit, fmic, exhaust, wb, injectors, pump, and talking about boost creep and porting turbos.

Kind of out of hand dont you think? Specially for a beginner.

With options like link, there really is no reason to mess around with anything else. An safc is a waste of time and money and doesnt really relate to v3, especially the sd maps.

With no tuner comes no fuel system upgrade, with no fuel system upgrades comes no need for a fmic or a larger turbo, no larger turbo w/large exhaust comes no creep. See what im getting at. He needs a base to build off of, somewhere to start. Since hes starting from the beginning.

Safc will only control up to 650's which he will need larger soon anyway. So buying anything other then intake, exhaust, and link is a waste of money and completely ass backwards far as im concerned.

Plus he's fwd with likely no track experience and doesnt need to learn how to launch a fwd with a 350whp car that hits hard right off the line.

Like i said, a close friend of mine ran 14.1 with only intake,exhaust, and mbc. With a good tune and a 2 step/launch control, it would have been a solid 13's car. If hes going to spend the money he needs to do it right the first time around to save him the hassle and the cash.

So again my recommendation would be

ebay intake pipe
3" turbo back exhaust
mbc w/boost gauge
wb o2
dsm link v3

 

[GST_RIC_99]

to be honest guys i want to save as much as i can like i said earlier but i know if i want my car to be at the level i want I'm going to have to spend some money. this deal on the turbo kit seem like a great deal i don't know if you guys know but the 16g went up in price by $500 more so its a $1000 check a few sites and you'll see what i am talking about its pretty hard to find one at that price for a full 16g kit yes their are people parting out their cars but not in my area as much as other places i think i just got lucky

 

[eligst21]

I get he is a beginner. But these are what he already suggested. I was just helping him out. I agree with you on him being a beginner, but he has to start somewhere. And why not do it right? Plus he already mentioned that he is getting a 16g and is shooting for 300whp. Also, he said he wants to buy everything at once or around the same time. I was trying to help the guy get the right stuff, or at least from my experience.

Also ecmlink on the t25, is a waste. You cant really puch anything nout of them past 15 pounds, so why spend a grand do what a mbc could do for 80 on stock fuel system anyways.

 

[GST_RIC_99]

just wondering would it be bad to get everything but something to tune it with and have someone tune it for me or would i still need it anyways to say like a shop tune it or would that be more money to do that then buying emclink /dsmlink ? just wondering witch one would be better

 

[91stocker]

he already mentioned that he is getting a 16g and is shooting for 300whp. Also, he said he wants to buy everything at once or around the same time.

Doesn't everyone say this though. How many threads are titled "just bought my first dsm and want to make 500whp". Everything at once will run atleast 3k. And he will still need link to make 300whp anyway, so i dont understand your logic.


Also ecmlink on the t25, is a waste. You cant really puch anything nout of them past 15 pounds, so why spend a grand do what a mbc could do for 80 on stock fuel system anyways.

Why would it be a waste? The 2g timing map is very conservative and the afr's are pig rich. Lots of room for improvement, even on stock boost levels. And the t-25 can make 17-18psi(even though psi is irrelevant) on the stock motor. Which seems to be about 230whp on average.

Your not going to do that even, with out some sort of tuning. To max the stock turbo you need a tuner, so why the hell would anyone slap a bigger turbo on a car with no tuning? Makes no sense to me. Very first mod on my car was dsmap and sd conversion for that very reason.

just wondering would it be bad to get everything but something to tune it with and have someone tune it for me or would i still need it anyways to say like a shop tune it or would that be more money to do that then buying emclink /dsmlink ? just wondering witch one would be better

A shop can not tune your car with out something to tune it with. And ecmlink and dsmlink are the same thing.

ECMTuning, Inc.

You can save some cash by purchasing the "lite" version, then upgrade to "full" later on and convert to speed density.

 

[GST_RIC_99]

Why would it be a waste? The 2g timing map is very conservative and the afr's are pig rich. Lots of room for improvement, even on stock boost levels. And the t-25 can make 17-18psi(even though psi is irrelevant) on the stock motor. Which seems to be about 230whp on average.

Your not going to do that even, with out some sort of tuning. To max the stock turbo you need a tuner, so why the hell would anyone slap a bigger turbo on a car with no tuning? Makes no sense to me. Very first mod on my car was dsmap and sd conversion for that very reason.



A shop can not tune your car with out something to tune it with. And ecmlink and dsmlink is the same thing.

ECMTuning, Inc.

You can save some cash by purchasing the "lite" version, then upgrade to "full" later on and convert to speed density.

ok so the light version is $425 i know dsmlink & ecmlink is the same thing i was saying either one by that last post...sorry

ill just save for one then since their wont be anyway around getting one

 

[Nicklepage1010]

A beginner should be doing research on other peoples projects before undergoing surgery on his own car. Although the E3 is a pretty straight drop in, he doesnt even know what he needs to install it. I see alot of the blind leading the blind. DSMlink on flashable cars is a waste of time.

Tactrix.com
EVOSCAN.com

^^Those should get you started.

 

[69_luv]

A beginner should be doing research on other peoples projects before undergoing surgery on his own car. Although the E3 is a pretty straight drop in, he doesnt even know what he needs to install it. I see alot of the blind leading the blind. DSMlink on flashable cars is a waste of time.

Tactrix.com
EVOSCAN.com

^^Those should get you started.

Very well said.
I wonder if $500 for a DP and CB should even be on the list. Have shop cut out the stock cat, get an O2 with external dump. Save the money towards tuning with ECUFlash, and current maint.

 

[Nicklepage1010]

OP:
Do a little more searching on other people who have successfully completed the EvoIII 16g swap. Im sure even seeing a few install write ups will help you out phenomenally.

 

[91stocker]

ok so the light version is $425 i know dsmlink & ecmlink is the same thing i was saying either one by that last post...sorry

ill just save for one then since their wont be anyway around getting one

Yea sorry man, im not trying to sound like a dick in my posts, but you CAN NOT upgrade your fuel system with some way to compensate for it.

Safc, reflashed eprom, flash-able ecu, or dsmlink. Obviously link being the best option with the most room to grow and community support.

There is a way to run 560's with an evo8 maf on a 2g with no tuning. It works if you have no plans on going any larger in the near future.

Theres a reason they call these "tuner" cars haha.

A beginner should be doing research on other peoples projects before undergoing surgery on his own car. Although the E3 is a pretty straight drop in, he doesnt even know what he needs to install it. I see alot of the blind leading the blind.

Guess you missed all my posts

DSMlink on flashable cars is a waste of time.

Tactrix.com
EVOSCAN.com

^^Those should get you started.

Yea recommend a beginner a tuning system that no one uses, has a strong learning curve, and has no community support.

As well as having to pay extra for a tuner to learn the system when and if he gets it tuned by a local shop.

We just recently ran link v3 on a 99'. Having a system people are familiar with is a bonus, so is having a nice easy to use and easy to look at UI.

Very well said.
I wonder if $500 for a DP and CB should even be on the list. Have shop cut out the stock cat, get an O2 with external dump. Save the money towards tuning with ECUFlash, and current maint.

Yea external dump and no cat on a cali car?

 

[Nicklepage1010]

Funds are obviously an issue, and how is there no community for it?
The tactrix openport 2.0 is roughly $250 after shipping and the reflash connector.
Evoscan is a whopping $25.00
ECUflash is virtually free

so whats that, less than $300.00?
Sure, he has to spend a little time online figuring out how to use it, but theres no price on learning about these cars, especially if he plans to modify it past an OEM turbo swap.

 

[91stocker]

Funds are obviously an issue, and how is there no community for it?

Yea, no community. The guy that helped set it up on the dsm's hasnt even logged on in 4 months and hes not working with the flashable ecu's anymore.

Plus just read the list of problems in this thread and the total lack of support.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...st-flashed-dsm-ecu-98-99-flashing-faq-27.html


so whats that, less than $300.00?
Sure, he has to spend a little time online figuring out how to use it, but theres no price on learning about these cars, especially if he plans to modify it past an OEM turbo swap.

For another $125 he could have link. And why learn to use a dead system? The number of flashable ecu's is already limited. The number of them still using ceddymods is even smaller.

 

[69_luv]

For another $125 he could have link. And why learn to use a dead system? The number of flashable ecu's is already limited. The number of them still using ceddymods is even smaller.

I can get link and a drop in ECU for $425? Maybe light. Your right ECUFlash is a little harder to start off with, but in my opinion if you can flash, why not? The newer maps are considerably easier to use btw. I would consider myself a beginner when it comes to tuning and I was able to get a solid base tune keeping a/f around 10.5. I think its even cooler that we can do things like NLTS, speed density, adjust the parameters for when fans kick on.
Yes Link does that too, and I am not trying to take away from it, but coming from a tuning "noob" to another I would still recommend.

The exhaust comment because if he is putting a catback and downpipe and its costing say $450 for a Megan CB, and another $150 for the DP and its taking out the cat anyway....

Doesn't large (3") exhaust contribute to things like boost creep? I think the money could be better spent on an FPR and 255, or a 190, injectors, upkeep and maintenance, a tuning device, something to log with, a wideband, boost gauge, everything else in the upgrade path...
Exhaust is not a requirement to put a turbo on is all I was trying to imply.

 

[91stocker]

I can get link and a drop in ECU for $425? Maybe light. Your right ECUFlash is a little harder to start off with, but in my opinion if you can flash, why not? The newer maps are considerably easier to use btw. I would consider myself a beginner when it comes to tuning and I was able to get a solid base tune keeping a/f around 10.5. I think its even cooler that we can do things like NLTS, speed density, adjust the parameters for when fans kick on.
Yes Link does that too, and I am not trying to take away from it, but coming from a tuning "noob" to another I would still recommend.

I havent kept up to date on the ceddymods at all. Had no reason to really. Thats great if it they've got it all figured out like you say. Sounds like it may be worth doing some research on.

Doesn't large (3") exhaust contribute to things like boost creep? I think the money could be better spent on an FPR and 255, or a 190, injectors, upkeep and maintenance, a tuning device, something to log with, a wideband, boost gauge, everything else in the upgrade path...
Exhaust is not a requirement to put a turbo on is all I was trying to imply.

Yea it would creep but if he has a tuner he would be running the t25 wide open anyway. No worries there, much much different then wide open on a 16g.

 

[GST_RIC_99]

I can get link and a drop in ECU for $425? Maybe light. Your right ECUFlash is a little harder to start off with, but in my opinion if you can flash, why not? The newer maps are considerably easier to use btw. I would consider myself a beginner when it comes to tuning and I was able to get a solid base tune keeping a/f around 10.5. I think its even cooler that we can do things like NLTS, speed density, adjust the parameters for when fans kick on.
Yes Link does that too, and I am not trying to take away from it, but coming from a tuning "noob" to another I would still recommend.

The exhaust comment because if he is putting a catback and downpipe and its costing say $450 for a Megan CB, and another $150 for the DP and its taking out the cat anyway....

Doesn't large (3") exhaust contribute to things like boost creep? I think the money could be better spent on an FPR and 255, or a 190, injectors, upkeep and maintenance, a tuning device, something to log with, a wideband, boost gauge, everything else in the upgrade path...
Exhaust is not a requirement to put a turbo on is all I was trying to imply.

would the car be just as fast without a cat-back and still use stock exhaust ? i could go the route your talking about might save a lot of money

 

[69_luv]

would the car be just as fast without a cat-back and still use stock exhaust ? i could go the route your talking about might save a lot of money

Everyone wants exhaust on our cars, I mean it just sounds sooo good, and it free's up power letting the turbo push the exhaust out easier.

I was running 24+ psi on my TD05 setup for the past year+ on stock exhaust with the cat removed. I have less than 1lb boost creep or spike. I turn my set screw on my MBC to the boost I want and it stays right there. I have saved the money that I was going to spend on a downpipe and exhaust and bought: my tuning tools, a new hotside for the turbo, thermal coating for all the exhaust components, fuel upgrades, cooling upgrades, ect.

Will a car with exhaust make more power than a stock exhaust setup, probably but I don't think its going to be enough to make a difference at the 16G level you/me are on.

Important, I had spike before I ported out my flapper and O2 Housing. I made sure that the outlet of my O2 matched up to the inlet of my stock DP. I ported out everything everything in the inside of the hotside of the turbo. There is walkthrough's on here, as well as video's on YouTube that show you exactly what to port. Even a NooB can port enough to fix the wastegate flapper. If you don't have a boost source off the turbo/j-pipe that is also a perfect time to drill, tap 3/8npt, and put in a vac nipple.

I say hold off on exhaust for now, and put the money towards making solid power.